Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Nico is not that slower in the race as well..
My theory is:Schumacher avoided to resort too much towards hot blowing the difusser as the maps cannot be switched anymore you can make adjustments but i´m not sure if that is enough.
So Nico went for full hot blowing ..compromising is race..as the tank volume was not big enough to make the distance.Schumacher set the car up so he could attack till the end.
Fuel map is one answer to that time difference.

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spadeflush
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush. wrote:Nico is not that slower in the race as well..
My theory is:Schumacher avoided to resort too much towards hot blowing the difusser as the maps cannot be switched anymore you can make adjustments but i´m not sure if that is enough.
So Nico went for full hot blowing ..compromising is race..as the tank volume was not big enough to make the distance.Schumacher set the car up so he could attack till the end.
Fuel map is one answer to that time difference.
Thats a plausible theory. Might be a reason why Nico was asked to conserve fuel in 2-3 races while Michael put in faster laps. Michael was never instructed to conserve fuel last season, atleast not in the radio conversations made public.
Forza Michael. Forza Jules

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MIKEY_!
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Hurry up guys, I want to see 2000 posts here before the thread closes 8)

MercAMGF1Fans
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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yeah we have 8 days left - for speculations.. also, Teasers are to come out this week

Mr.S
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Barely 8 days left before the test.

I doubt if they will even release Teasers although they did say they will release them

hollowBallistix
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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@JET

I'll try and hunt down the post I seen regarding the full interlinked suspention systems in F1 at somepoint today

It's been banned in WRC since 2006 I believe also, even though it's a passive system, I find it hard to believe that top F1 teams are not already using this system, especially when it's being applied on road going vehicles.

gato azul
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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I think, you are perhaps looking for something like this

Keep in mind, that a WRC and/or road car, has considerable more suspension travel, the an F1 car. Which is important, for a system, which uses suspension travel 8oil displaced in a damper unit] to work.
The other important metrics to keep in mind in this context is vertical tyre stiffness vs. vertical suspension stiffness.
You wont find many other cars, which use the same ratio as F1.
So a system which makes a lot of sense in a road or WRC car, maybe not all that good in an F1 car, all things considered ( additional weight, added complexity, sensitiveness against temperature change, packaging etc.)

gato azul
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
gato azul wrote:@ JET

Do you have a source for your "Mercury is banned by the FIA" claim?
Or is it just hearsay, because Scarbs said so?
No offence, I´m just curious, because the published FIA rules, explicietly
say, that fluids are excempted from any limitations on materials.
There is perhaps an FIA directive, but I have no seen this in the public domain.
I dont. But I can tell you that Beryllium was banned by the FIA over its supposedly high toxicity as a substance. This goes against the fact that once the berylium had machined and was used inside the cylinder walls, it was harmless.
Now using this as a precedent, and knowing that Mercury is in fact a metal with liquid properties at room temperature, it is considerably more toxic than Beryllium.
If it is not banned, it would be banned incredibly swiftly as teams will have no trouble whatsoever fielding mercury in some exposed area just to get the substance banned. Such is the nature of F1.
So to debate its legality, I feel is a moot point.
Thanks for the answer JET.
You will find that Beryllium, along with other materials is specifically mentioned in the published version of the FIA rules.
There are many other materials banned from usage such as MMC and Mg for example, the ban is not always due to their toxicity.

I thought, after Lotus-Renault went to all this trouble to file a patent application last year for their fluid inerter, making specific mention of the possible use of Mercury, it would have been easy and straight forward, to include a §§ into the 2012 rules, if the FIA felt a need to exclude it, like they did with Beryllium.

Let´s not turn this into another pro/con Mercury debate, let´s just see what happens. But I felt that if someone make such a sure footed statement, such as "it´s banned by the FIA", I would like to see some evidence for it.
Again, no offense intended, it´s well possible that it is banned, but I have yet to see proof of it, other then Scarbs said so.
Mercury and it´s toxicity is probably along the lines of the toxicity of lead, which still get´s used in abundance in lower racing series as ballast, even that we have gone to unleaded fuel, and their existing some government guidelines about the toxicity of lead ( e.g. is banned since a while to be used as a component in paint etc.).

To see things in some context, I´m pretty sure that a large part of the population still has Mercury as part of their dental fillings, it still get´s used in fluorescent light bulbs, and to make mirrors, and it get´s used in large quantities to mine gold and silver ore.

On the other hand, there is some nasty stuff used in KERS batteries too, and I surely would not want to stand next to a KERS battery on fire or in thermal meltdown, but the FIA considers the risk as "manageable".
Yes Mercury is toxic, their is no discussion about this, but I would say, that it is on a manageable level.
If some teams use it or not as part of their solution to a problem, is a different matter, as others said, there are other means to reach the same end.

Raptor22
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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speaking of suspension legality, I find myself still stumming my fingers on the desk in anticipation of answers posed to a certain individual.


It looks like Mercedes are priming s for a car thats not too visually different from W02.

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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush. wrote:Nico is not that slower in the race as well..
My theory is:Schumacher avoided to resort too much towards hot blowing the difusser as the maps cannot be switched anymore you can make adjustments but i´m not sure if that is enough.
So Nico went for full hot blowing ..compromising is race..as the tank volume was not big enough to make the distance.Schumacher set the car up so he could attack till the end.
Fuel map is one answer to that time difference.
That is the most plausable theory I have heard yet. MS did admit Nico could pull out a better qualifying lap too though. Maybe a bit of both.
Honda!

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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Raptor22 wrote:It looks like Mercedes are priming s for a car thats not too visually different from W02.
That's what I am expecting.
Honda!

Schulteiss
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Raptor22 wrote:
It looks like Mercedes are priming s for a car thats not too visually different from W02.
I would be very surprised if they would come up with even a remotely radical re-design instead of an obvious evolution. They would never have decided to miss one-third of their test opportunities with a completely new design, I imagine. So many think that the only chance to make a car faster, and get back some performance is designing a different car. Ferrari changed fundamental concepts on their car and they found themselves on the back foot, most possibly playing catch up until after the flyaway races. In fact, it seems to me that Mercedes now has a slight advantage in understanding the 2012 tyres compared to the rest of the grid, while being able to put on track a slightly more advanced car in terms of development, which basically means they skipped a step compared to the rest.

Hemsy
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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Schulteiss wrote:
Raptor22 wrote:
It looks like Mercedes are priming s for a car thats not too visually different from W02.
I would be very surprised if they would come up with even a remotely radical re-design instead of an obvious evolution. They would never have decided to miss one-third of their test opportunities with a completely new design, I imagine. So many think that the only chance to make a car faster, and get back some performance is designing a different car. Ferrari changed fundamental concepts on their car and they found themselves on the back foot, most possibly playing catch up until after the flyaway races. In fact, it seems to me that Mercedes now has a slight advantage in understanding the 2012 tyres compared to the rest of the grid, while being able to put on track a slightly more advanced car in terms of development, which basically means they skipped a step compared to the rest.
Exactly! Ross Brawn has clearly stated that the W03 will visually, be very similar to it's predecessor. And why shouldn't it be?! The W02 was already a decent car, not a great car but 4th place is more than some teams can ever hope to achieve. And what's the point of designing a radical car which may cure the previous car's problems but sprout completely new ones. Red Bull have effectively evolved the same concept since 2009 & as a result have gone from strength to strength.

marcush.
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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I have one thing to counter this theory:
If there was potential in the basic design ,why would MGP be unable to close the gap at all in 2011 ? they juuust managed to keep it as it was after sorting out the initial gremlins in the first races.
The flaw was uncurable(again!) in MGPs book at least so the CONCEPT was wrong as the car had not the speed .qualy or race ,there was a BIG gap to the front runners.
So a year of development was not enough to close that gap why should a winters development bring the jump needed.Maybe it will look similar..silver ...and sport a high tub but then last years car looked a lot different to 2010 as well..
I expect a surprise,not a long car.

Schulteiss
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

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marcush. wrote:I have one thing to counter this theory:
If there was potential in the basic design ,why would MGP be unable to close the gap at all in 2011 ? they juuust managed to keep it as it was after sorting out the initial gremlins in the first races.
The flaw was uncurable(again!) in MGPs book at least so the CONCEPT was wrong as the car had not the speed .qualy or race ,there was a BIG gap to the front runners.
So a year of development was not enough to close that gap why should a winters development bring the jump needed.Maybe it will look similar..silver ...and sport a high tub but then last years car looked a lot different to 2010 as well..
I expect a surprise,not a long car.
The concept was said to be wrong for the EBD. The SWB was originally thought to be advantageous, until it proved to be in fact the opposite, when they had to go for full EBD with mapping to match and all. The gain brought by the EBD was more than they could do without,even if it has brought far less than to any other team, bar Lotus. But you have read this I am sure. This year with no EBD, I am curious what they carry on,from the W02, that could possibly work. Yeah, but a longer, but still SWB chassis is not that big a surprise. :)