Scrubbing in F1 tires

Jersey Tom · Post 04 Jun 2006, 08:12

Something I hadn't thought about till now.. do they scrub in F1 tires before they throw em on during a race? Or do they run stickers?

NickT · Post 04 Jun 2006, 13:29

7 sets of tyres for the weekend and they like to keep as many brand new ones as possible for the race and for qualifying as they produce their fastest laps when new. So no, for the 2006 season atleast, they don't scrub tyres.

tf1 · Post 04 Jun 2006, 16:18

Nickt are you sure? I could have sworn one of the top teams (renault?) used a set of used or scrubbed tires at one of the recent races this year. I think Spain....

But I agree for the most part that they use brand new tires that are warmed until just before they are brought out for a pit change.

NickT · Post 04 Jun 2006, 17:17

tf1 wrote:Nickt are you sure? I could have sworn one of the top teams (renault?) used a set of used or scrubbed tires at one of the recent races this year. I think Spain....

Yes, if the teams had a choice they would always prefer to use new tyres at every pit stop. However, with the tyre war in full swing that might yet change before the end of the season.

Jersey Tom · Post 04 Jun 2006, 17:28

Hm. The one time we tried running stickers, they didn't grip nearly as well as a new, scrubbed in tire on the first lap. I have a feeling ours may have had quite a bit of mold release on them though.

DaveKillens · Post 04 Jun 2006, 19:33

With sticker tires, you can get those "golden" quick laps in the first two or three laps. But after that, their performance stabilizes. But with new tires, you don't know what you have until you hit the track. Although the build qualify is excellent and consistent, occasionally you get a set that just doesn't seem to get the most out of the car. Witness Shu's first stint at Australia, where he was shamefully off the pace.
But scrubbed tires have already had one heat cycle, and although they have lost the golden lap freshness, are a known quantity, and quite stable.
And of course, ciircumstances such as qualifying may force you to use stickers for just a few laps. And since you have a limited supply, they will be held in reserve in case circumstances force you or they seem advantageous to use.

mini696 · Post 05 Jun 2006, 02:28

MS gets massa to use all his sets of tyres in the practice sessions so he has fresh (new) ones for the race.

The teams can heat cycle a tyre without it being on the car, so they get the best of both worlds (fresh rubber, plus cycled).

RacingManiac · Post 05 Jun 2006, 02:48

mini696 wrote:MS gets massa to use all his sets of tyres in the practice sessions so he has fresh (new) ones for the race.

The teams can heat cycle a tyre without it being on the car, so they get the best of both worlds (fresh rubber, plus cycled).

I thought tires are nominated to the drivers anyway, they can't share tires between the 2 drivers...

dcdabest · Post 05 Jun 2006, 12:25

RacingManiac wrote: I thought tires are nominated to the drivers anyway, they can't share tires between the 2 drivers...

I think that what he meant was that Massa does a greater share of the tyre testing, using up more of his 7 allocated sets than Schumacher.

If true, it is a shame that Ferrari hasn't allowed their No. 2 drivers a fair chance against Michael.

RH1300S · Post 05 Jun 2006, 12:46

Ermm...let's try and keep this topic on tyres please

I am not to clear about the benefits of scrubbed tyres in the F1 context. In other forms of racing, I understand that a scrubbed set will have been through a (some) heat cycle(s) and will be more durable. Also, the release agents etc. can get scrubbed off.

I am sure that the F1 guys are more than able to put tyres through heat cycles before they get put on a car, also it can't be beyond the wit of man to clean the tyre surface of agents before it hits the track.

Paying attention to commentary, it's pretty obvious that a fresh tyre has more speed than a scrubbed one - but for how long and will a scrubbed one last longer?

Does anyone have any real knowledge about this? It's an interesting subject.

Monstrobolaxa · Post 05 Jun 2006, 14:46

New tires are not necessarly better....usually new tires have a kind o polish on them that keeps them shiny and usually teams scrub the tires to remove this shiny polish that actually is quite slippery! Usually new tires only reach their optimum grip levels after a 2 lap scrub.

Jason · Post 05 Jun 2006, 16:52

2 laps scurb should not be enough for Hards, the Hards tends to wear less. But do make good choices for long period of braking and long strainghts. BTW Alonso was on used tyres for Monaco, Schumi stickers on his tyre when he came out of pit stop. Personally I think Renault starts with used tyres taken from Qualifying to saved tyres for their pit stops so they could do longer stints with the new tyres available.

MrT · Post 05 Jun 2006, 20:26

In the realms of the usual racer sticker tyres are not the best performance for two reasons.

1. The tyres are sold after being released from the mould. They still have release agent in the very surface of the tyre, after the first corner or couple of corners this disappears and the grip is increased.

2. Tyres gerneraly are not sold with enougth heat cycles to produce the maximum grip on the first laps. Once one or two heat cycles are put through the tyres the grip may increase before falling off.

mini696 · Post 06 Jun 2006, 04:11

MS's tyres at Monaco were 'stickers', however the commentators said they had been through a heat cycle. You could alos see the only part of the sticker remaining was inside the grooves, so obviously the tyre had done some running. I wonder why Ferrari didnt remove all the sticker.

Bridgestones have tended to be crap for the first couple of laps, and then come to the drivers later and not last long, Michellins are somewhat the opposite (good for the first few laps, then drop off, but last longer). Yes I am aware that this is very general.