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[simieski]

Crucial, what detrimental effects does age have on a wind tunnel to warrant it due for replacement after only 8 years? Or is it just technology and design has moved on considerably?

[Pup]

My feeling is that the reason they're adding a new one is because their applied tech division needs one of their own, though the F1 group will obviously prefer the newer facility. Calling an 8-year-old facility 'old' is incorrect.

[Kantzis]

As for the McLaren WindTunnel, it is old & aging.

It's 8 years old. Just because they want a better one doesn't mean that their existing one isn't up to the task.

I never said it wasn't. Doesn't change the fact it is old and they are replacing it.

How did you find out that they are replacing it?

[Pup]

Jeez, people.

They aren't replacing it. The new Applied Technology Centre will have a wind tunnel of it's own. The F1 group will probably use it since it will indeed be 'newer'.

McLaren have three divisions and two other F1 teams trying to schedule time in their current tunnel - they need two, so they're building another one.

[Gridlock]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-16524637

Formula 1 racing team McLaren says 900 jobs could be created when it builds a new technology centre in Surrey.

Woking Borough Council has approved plans to build new offices, a wind tunnel and car parks on the site between Woking and Ottershaw.

As per pup - this is a wind tunnel for MAT, a small distinction but still meaning there'll be 2 on site rather than one upgraded one.

At least they didn't try to build it at an angle and call it art

[Crucial_Xtreme]

As for the McLaren WindTunnel, it is old & aging.

It's 8 years old. Just because they want a better one doesn't mean that their existing one isn't up to the task.

How did you find out that they are replacing it? [/quote]

Can be found Here as he is quite accurate & trustworthy with McLaren news, has been for years. Notice he confirmed it on Nov. 10th 2011 and the BBC confirmed it Jan of 2012.

BBC confirming a new wind tunnel

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-16524637

[thestig84]

As for the McLaren WindTunnel, it is old & aging.

It's 8 years old. Just because they want a better one doesn't mean that their existing one isn't up to the task.

I think they do actually feel its not really up to the task. They are over at Toyota a lot more than you think and why not when its a better facility.

[Pup]

All the teams book the Toyota tunnels, primarily to skirt the resource restrictions, but it is better by all accounts. It's only 5 years old, after all.

The advantage of the Toyota tunnel is its imaging system, as I understand it. At least I don't think McLaren have a PIV setup - they might. Nevertheless, since all the teams have access to it, it's not a competitive advantage or disadvantage. Though having one of their own might be and I'm sure McLaren always want the best - who wouldn't?

[ianwit]

Two side view comparisons. There is a lot more room under the nose of the Ferrari and the Bull and McLaren look pretty similar.


http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=srs&s=24&a=62&b=63

http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=srs&s=24

[marcush.]

flowviz -would you trust something you can only see the endproduct after a certain exposure time in the pits? I think it´s ok if you only looks for something like max temps and put on a temperature sticker but is that really much help for analysis of aero performance? you need to video this under load and speed methinks ?
As for the pitots and aero rakes..The tool you use for taking measurements may influence your test ,wouldn´t it?

[bonjon1979]

flowviz -would you trust something you can only see the endproduct after a certain exposure time in the pits? I think it´s ok if you only looks for something like max temps and put on a temperature sticker but is that really much help for analysis of aero performance? you need to video this under load and speed methinks ?
As for the pitots and aero rakes..The tool you use for taking measurements may influence your test ,wouldn´t it?

They might well have pin hole cameras mounted on the car and a phlanx of engineers with high def cameras.

[thestig84]

All the teams book the Toyota tunnels, primarily to skirt the resource restrictions, but it is better by all accounts. It's only 5 years old, after all.

The advantage of the Toyota tunnel is its imaging system, as I understand it. At least I don't think McLaren have a PIV setup - they might. Nevertheless, since all the teams have access to it, it's not a competitive advantage or disadvantage. Though having one of their own might be and I'm sure McLaren always want the best - who wouldn't?

I agree all the teams would want the best but all teams dont have access at the same time!, I know in 2010 they were using it a lot, not just RRA related. They had correlation issues and used Toyota when fixing theirs. Since seeing how much better it was must have opened their eyes.

[Chalke]

Two side view comparisons. There is a lot more room under the nose of the Ferrari and the Bull and McLaren look pretty similar.


http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=srs&s=24&a=62&b=63

http://mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=srs&s=24

The angle can be deceptive on these side by side comparisons, but looking at those it's also interesting to note the difference in rake/rear ride height. The Ferari being noticeably lower than the Mac and the RB, perhaps related to the relative speeds each car seemed to show at Jerez.

[Pup]

I know in 2010 they were using it a lot, not just RRA related. They had correlation issues and used Toyota when fixing theirs. Since seeing how much better it was must have opened their eyes.

Ferrari did the same last year. I remember reading that they had to shut down their tunnel for a considerable time to correct some issues. In fact, I think I remember that the F150 was largely designed in the Toyota tunnel. Lot of good that did them.

[Pup]

flowviz -would you trust something you can only see the endproduct after a certain exposure time in the pits? I think it´s ok if you only looks for something like max temps and put on a temperature sticker but is that really much help for analysis of aero performance? you need to video this under load and speed methinks ?
As for the pitots and aero rakes..The tool you use for taking measurements may influence your test ,wouldn´t it?

Relating this to the wind tunnel discussion, the big deal with Toyota's facility is that the PIV setup I mentioned eliminates exactly these problems.