Ferrari_Ivan idea on F2012

[shelly]

@ivan: for legality you can also check on the fia website , you can download the complete technical regulation (it could be a good exercise for your english also)

1) nothing can be in contact with the ground except for the wheels
2) if I am not mistaken, the fornt wing must have a centeal madated section and beyiond that the only thing the rules require is the wing to be contained in a box of assigned dimensions

[Ferrari_Ivan]

@ivan: for legality you can also check on the fia website , you can download the complete technical regulation (it could be a good exercise for your english also)

1) nothing can be in contact with the ground except for the wheels
2) if I am not mistaken, the fornt wing must have a centeal madated section and beyiond that the only thing the rules require is the wing to be contained in a box of assigned dimensions

thanks for the advice. actually I have a copy of the technical regulations. I can understand some things, but others are more difficult for me to understand. the regulation is written in a very formal English.

I know of 1) but i had a brilliant idea (for me). too bad it's illegal.

http://www.formula1news.info/forum/inde ... tem;in=352

for 2) my 'idea' was just a little crazy. I thought I had to rotate the front suspension. then to tilt the arms of the front wheels to the rear in order to increase the size of the front wing.

[MarkedOne8]

Even if it doesn't touch the ground, that would be illegal because:

3.7.1 All bodywork situated forward of a point lying 330mm behind the front wheel centre line, and more than 250mm from the car centre line, must be no less than 75mm and no more than 275mm above the
reference plane.

Suspenssion is very close to front wheel centre line when viewed from side.So to be honest, no chance for you idea but as long as you have more and more ideas it is good.

About my work.I started setting up regulation boxe in Inventor.I'll try to avoid installing and using SketchUp as long as I can.I think Inventor is good, but it takes some times to adapt.

I'll also try SolidWorks just to compare.

[Ferrari_Ivan]

Even if it doesn't touch the ground, that would be illegal because:

3.7.1 All bodywork situated forward of a point lying 330mm behind the front wheel centre line, and more than 250mm from the car centre line, must be no less than 75mm and no more than 275mm above the
reference plane.

Suspenssion is very close to front wheel centre line when viewed from side.So to be honest, no chance for you idea but as long as you have more and more ideas it is good.

About my work.I started setting up regulation boxe in Inventor.I'll try to avoid installing and using SketchUp as long as I can.I think Inventor is good, but it takes some times to adapt.

I'll also try SolidWorks just to compare.

thank you! I knew that probably was not legal but could be a great source of downforce, for me. you're right! if there are ideas is always a good thing!

I wait for your design. I'll start doing my with SolidWorks tomorrow!
if you want to try SolidWorks, I tell you that (in Italy) costs € 50 000! In fact I'll do it in the company where my dad works, which it bought for years.

[MarkedOne8]

Damn, it must be so good if it costs so much.I'll maybe give it a try.

I just copied old files of my F1 design.I have to examine them first and start editing them in 3Ds Max.I'll open new topic for my design.It is enough overflooding your topic. XD

One more thing.Here are the small wings on rear wing template.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Here is the best picture I could find of the rear wing detail. If I find better I will post. Right click>View image

[Ferrari_Ivan]

this pictures are very interensting and we can see the special rear wing Ferrari. thank you for yoru immage search.

@markedone8. your idea for rear wing is interesting, But I think that the flow of air that hits the smaller wings, is disturbed from the principal wing. and also the opposite. is only an impression, I do not know!

seems like a good car. another my impression.

[Ferrari_Ivan]

hello guys. I have a doubt.

as is known, the speed is inversely proportional to the pressure. In F1, on the wings, where the air is faster there is less pressure. where there is more pressure is slower.

+ Speed ​ -> - Pressure
- Speed ​​ -> + pressure

is that correct?

hello guys. I have a doubt.

as is known, the speed is inversely proportional to the pressure. F1, on the wings, where the air is faster there is less pressure. where there is more pressure is slower.

Speed ​​+ -> - Pressure
- Speed ​​-> + pressure

is that correct?

my question is: in the wings and the concept of Chapman's ground effect, increases the speed of the air under the profiles to get downforce.
but if it slows the air over the profiles, can I get downforce?

[MarkedOne8]

Here is better image.


So, aim od this endplate wings is to increase downforce when car is turning, but not to decrease acceleration or top speed when car is aligned straight.In theory, this concept has no negative effects, but it gives slightly more downforce when turning.I like to call it ,,hidden downforce" because small wings are hidden from direct flow of air on straights.

hello guys. I have a doubt.
hello guys. I have a doubt.

as is known, the speed is inversely proportional to the pressure. F1, on the wings, where the air is faster there is less pressure. where there is more pressure is slower.

Speed ​​+ -> - Pressure
- Speed ​​-> + pressure

is that correct?

my question is: in the wings and the concept of Chapman's ground effect, increases the speed of the air under the profiles to get downforce.
but if it slows the air over the profiles, can I get downforce?

Watch out in terms of pressure/speed.For example, front wings are set from 0 to 40 degre when viewing from side, right?Smaller angle means less pressure, that means less downforce and more speed.Bigger angle means more pressure, that means more downforce and less speed.That is clear, but... In case if front wing is set at angle of 67 degree that will give about same amount of downforce as front wing at 33 degree but will make twice more pressure.My conclusion is that maximum angle of any part of the car should not be mora than 45 degree.

If I think right, if you slow down the air above profiles you will get no more downforce but process of slowing the air down only means bigger drag.Personally for me it's quite difficult to understand ground effect, but it says ,,As the car gets closer to the ground, the cross sectional area available for the air passing between it and the ground shrinks. This causes the air to accelerate and as a result pressure under the card drops while the pressure on top is basically unaffected, and together this results in a net downward force."

[Ferrari_Ivan]

ok. now the picture is clearer! is a good idea. the first photo looked like the wings were inside the wing. these hidden wings are very interesting. you have to see if they work! like all my ideas ....

regarding my question, I did not understand your sentence 'If I think right, if you slow down the air above profiles you will get no more downforce but process of slowing the air down only means bigger drag'

another thing: with "speed" before the mean wind speed, not the car.

[MarkedOne8]

My mistake.
Yes, you can slow the air above profile (example front wing) by simply increasing the angle.That makes air slower, and car little bit slower, but creates downforce.

ok. now the picture is clearer! is a good idea. the first photo looked like the wings were inside the wing.

I knew that it looked crazy and unnormal.Problem was with invertet single-sided faces, but I found solution now.

OFFTOPIC:
One more thing.I couldn't resist, so I installed Google Sketch Up.I found one interesting thing.It is possible to make regulations boxes easily in Google Sketch Up, then export as AutoCAD DWG File (.dwg).Then, I can open them in Autodesk Inventor, or in Autodesk 3Ds Max.I will combine these 3 softwares and hopefuly make something good as soon as I can.

[Ferrari_Ivan]

ok! So I'm thinking about another idea. just design it, I show it to you. should not even have problems with the technical regulations (probably).
I'm thinking ..........

Your idea is good. But perhaps it creates a little aerodynamic edge (where else is the recess of the main wing to put the mini wings). is not it? But I think it works! good job guy!

[Crucial_Xtreme]

150 Italia



F2012

[Ferrari_Ivan]

still images! beautiful these, one can see the difference between the normal solution and the one with the multi-wing.

I sent an email with the same content of this topic to Giorgio Piola. I do not know if it is known all over the world but Italy is one of the most famous designers there. He worked as a journalist and is a true genius at his craft. He responded this morning.