Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Rikhart]

Where is anyone naming overheating? The vid goes about heating the tires with exhaust gasses, not a problem of overheating

The video mentions producing more df, that in turn heats the tyres to an optimum temperature. They talk about thus being able to use harder compounds with little loss.

They dont talk about directly heating tyres.

[hardingfv32]

They dont talk about directly heating tyres.

And then what happens to the soft compound which they must use at least once a race?

Brian

[Richard]

This is very simple. The team develops a limit target for chassis torsional strength. I have no clue how they pick the target, but I do know that you can't proceed with the chassis design without that number.

The input loads will be very well defined. They'll have data warehouses stuffed with the numbers for the actual forces on the elements from thousands of laps every season.

The safety factors for the construction will be well understood from testing components as well as different techniques & materials.

It takes a simple statistical analysis to determine the probability for failure, hence the required combined safety factor for loading and construction.

[PlatinumZealot]

Surely that as the front bulkhead is carrying the front suspension loads, then the stress will actually be quite considerable. Any removal of the web, will reduce the torsional rigidity.

Directly on point. We don't even know which requirement is higher, crash test loads or chassis torsional requirements.

This is very simple. The team develops a limit target for chassis torsional strength. I have no clue how they pick the target, but I do know that you can't proceed with the chassis design without that number. The rest is done by the computer.

Now, if you want to argue that some torsional stiffness is being traded for an aero benefit, that is fine.

For the benefit of our discussion on this forum we have to assume that everything the teams do is on the limit. It is the only way we can baseline some of our technical discussions or analysis trade offs.

Brian

From what I gather the chassis is a little stiffer (torsionally) than the engine. due to the size of it (it's like one big 30 inch square tube with caps at the ends if want to think of it like that) In fact it is very easy to over design it. There is a detailed torsional rigidity graph across the length of an F1 car in the BMW engine report pdf that was bandied about on here a few years ago.

[hardingfv32]

In fact it is very easy to over design it.

Not if you are concerned with weight. There is no intentional over designing in F1!

Brian

[Nickel]

I have a question: What is the implication of the cockpit itself on aerodynamics? How does the freestream (I think this is the right term) react to the stagnant air in which the driver sits? What would the benefit be of endowing this region with a certain amount of flow, say for arguments sake, the amount available from the step slot?

Also, my understanding is very rudimentary, but as far as I've been able to comprehend, the boundary layer creates massive amounts of friction, and it would be beneficial to remove it. That being said, I may be very wrong in assuming the slot can accomplish this in so far as the nose is concerned.

If it is so simple, Newey can well claim it is for driver cooling as this is allowed and the air does in fact circulate around the driver. Am I missing something?

[MIKEY_!]

That all sounds fine to me. Good thinking.

[mattiebee99]

Redbull have covered the ducts which provide the exit point.
Left and right side of Webbers helmet. Im not so sure the drivers are feeling any cooling whatsoever. Perhaps bypassed via either sides of their arms???

[raymondu999]

What exit point? The bit directly around the head is the detachable headrest

[jordangp]

The headrest appears to be creased also, as if it's a vinyl sticker,that's peeling. Surely this is just a trick of the light?

There is also no exit there, it's just the headrest.

[SiLo]

[img]http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5983/rb8.png[img]
Redbull have covered the ducts which provide the exit point.
Left and right side of Webbers helmet. Im not so sure the drivers are feeling any cooling whatsoever. Perhaps bypassed via either sides of their arms???

What's more interesting about this photo is the shape of the floor next to the rear wheel just ahead of the diffuser. Looks like they are still feeding the diffuser from the side to increase the volume of air underneath the car.

[hardingfv32]

I have a question: What is the implication of the cockpit itself on aerodynamics?

This might answer some question if you can get a hold of it:

Cranfield University Formula 1 team: an aerodynamic study of the cockpit

Luca Iaccarino, Dr. Philip Rubini, 2003

Brian

[aral]

Redbull have covered the ducts which provide the exit point.
Left and right side of Webbers helmet. Im not so sure the drivers are feeling any cooling whatsoever. Perhaps bypassed via either sides of their arms???

I doubt that these are exits. This area is part of the driver head protection, which is regulated. Having hollows through the foam would not be allowed, and any opening in the top for a vent, would weaken the protection in a serious manner.

[hardingfv32]

What would the benefit be of endowing this region with a certain amount of flow, say for arguments sake, the amount available from the step slot?

IF this is a benefit, then why has this not common practice in all forms of open cockpit cars in years past? There is NO benefit to the cockpit region.

the boundary layer creates massive amounts of friction, and it would be beneficial to remove it.

What do you replace it with, a vacuum? I don't understand you proposal.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

I doubt that these are exits.

Correct, the cockpit opening (the seam outside the padding) is clearly specified and this padding is they only thing allowed inside this zone.

Most collar padding systems I have seen were made with a very thin composite skin that was smooth and stiff. This part seems to have a soft exterior that is deforming because of expansion caused by the dark blue color.

Brian