2012 Exhaust Blowing & Coanda

[strad]

Looks more like inadvertent heating of a portion of the tire rather than really trying to heat up the tread.

Yep...BIG difference.

[Hail22]

The article below?

Way below.

And here's the confirmation...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97662

So they say 'manufacturer' singular. Perhaps Merc wasn't involved at all?

It would most likely be Ferrari as Mercedes engines naturally have a run off which will now subsequently be killed off.

Highly doubtful but it could also be Cosworth.

Renault and Mercedes engines benefitted from this, Renaults engines is using a loophole where as it has been said before Mercedes engines have a natural run off while off the throttle (discussed during Silverstone issue).

[Trocola]

Why can't they see the blow diffusers as a sort of HERS? The exhaust is being reused to provide downforce, instead of power. Win win ffs.

The idea behind the KERS/HERS is to safe fuel. If a blow diffuser uses more fuel for working correctly (blowing when braking), it is against all this eco-friendly-green-flowerpower F1 the FIA wants to create.

There is a simple way to ban this blow diffusers: put the exhaust in a mandatory position


Trocola

[mx_tifoso]

Oh yeah, I didn't consider that they use slightly more fuel. =/ Gracias Trocola.

[PlatinumZealot]

[quote="n smikle"I think hot blowing may still be achieved at any throttle position but it would ONLY work at full strength in that Narrow window when the throttle is wide open by the driver's foot - during acceleration out of the corner

Please restate, this seems a normal condition, nothing to do with 'off throttle' blowing.

Brian[/quote]

Off throttle blowing is banned. You were not talking about "Hot Blowing?" Hot blowing can be independent of off throttle blowing.

[hardingfv32]

have said they sound like last year..still blowing off throttle

IF it 'sounds' like last year then it is 'hot'. Is that an invalid way to read the sentence. Now you could argue some idiots were cold blowing last rear, but they were not winning races with that strategy. And I doubt anyone was making note of their exhaust sound other than to note how weak it was.

If it is not hot blowing why would anyone be concerned? The rules clearly call for a 5K rpm idle limit, so that sets how much the throttle can be open at the fully lifted pedal position.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

Off throttle blowing is banned. You were not talking about "Hot Blowing?" Hot blowing can be independent of off throttle blowing.

What then are you talking about? Are you saying that the exhaust can't be aimed at anything? You must be joking?

Brian

[Gridlock]

Now you could argue some idiots were cold blowing last rear, but they were not winning races with that strategy.
Brian

Weren't Renault using cold blowing last year Brian? How did that work out for Red Bull?

[Mr Alcatraz]

As we know the manufacturer of the standard ECU is McLaren Electronic Systems. As to who, if anyone is exploiting it here-to-for is unknown. The identity of the team that has brought it to the attention of the FIA is probably one that discovered this loophole independently while investigating it for its own possible benefit from it.

It will be interesting to see if there is any major change in tomorrow's practice. I guess if the cars sound different, we'll know who was using it and who wasn't.

I think that would turn into speculation (depending whether the engineers at the test can even hear it), and how discernable your ear is. The YouTube’s we get are not always that audibly sensitive.
It may not be readily noticeable. As JET said it may yet to be introduced, plus it is not necessarily going to be eliminated until:

A software update for the standard ECU will be issued later in March to ensure this route of development cannot be further investigated

And if someone is using it, they may not want to reprogram on their own until next week’s practice starts in case it may skew this week’s data. Or they may desparately want to know today but they may only change it for a small part of their program.

It has historically been Ferrari's style to wait until the last possible moment to lodge these kinds of complaints. It could put a team or two a little on its back foot, while ensuring it is clarified in time for it to be inaccessible for any part of the season without having to bring the the spectre of penalties into the arguement.

[PlatinumZealot]

Off throttle blowing is banned. You were not talking about "Hot Blowing?" Hot blowing can be independent of off throttle blowing.

What then are you talking about? Are you saying that the exhaust can't be aimed at anything? You must be joking?

Brian

I am talking about the difference in engine operation between hot blowing and computer controlled off throttle blowing.

The computer controlled part is what is banned coming into 2012.
Hot blowing was not banned.
Hot blowing is just a result of heavily retarding the ignition timing and injecting more fuel than needed. Hot blowing can be done with either driver controlled throttle or computer controlled throttle. The computer controlled throttle gives you a wider operating band for hot blowing - as seen in 2011.

[AdamCarpenter]

Off throttle blowing is banned. You were not talking about "Hot Blowing?" Hot blowing can be independent of off throttle blowing.

What then are you talking about? Are you saying that the exhaust can't be aimed at anything? You must be joking?

Brian

He's definitely not saying that in any way. He's saying that hot blowing and off throttle blowing are 2 separate concepts, and I agree. I was under the impression that most teams were hot blowing off throttle last year ie. a combination of the 2. Off throttle blowing was simply opening the throttle while the driver was off the pedal, hot blowing was retarding the ignition to dump unburnt fuel into the exhaust which would then combust and create a hot burst of exhaust gas. They're not one and the same, and can happen independently of each other. So the new regs on engine maps this year are meant to cut out hot blowing, the rules linking the throttle to pedal position are meant to cut out off throttle blowing.

Now you could argue some idiots were cold blowing last rear, but they were not winning races with that strategy.
Brian

Weren't Renault using cold blowing last year Brian? How did that work out for Red Bull?

Wouldn't everyone that was off throttle blowing technically have used a small amount of cold blowing? Just because teams were hot blowing doesn't mean they were 100% constantly hot blowing when off the throttle, i'm sure there will have been an element of cold blowing in there as well.

[Just_a_fan]

As we know the manufacturer of the standard ECU is McLaren Electronic Systems. As to who, if anyone is exploiting it here-to-for is unknown. The identity of the team that has brought it to the attention of the FIA is probably one that discovered this loophole independently while investigating it for its own possible benefit from it.

Are you implying that McLaren reported it? It's widely reported that the Renault and Mercedes engined teams were already in on this. And McLaren are a Mercedes engined team.

That only leaves Ferrari and Cosworth...

[PlatinumZealot]

Cold blowing is just less fuel than hot blowing. Simple clean explosions that do not propagate into the exhaust pipes. Cold blowing has the advantage of more horsepower but less energy in the exhaust gas... which is pretty straight forward - You can deduce from the 2nd law of thermodynamics

[Tyler]

Could it in fact be Red Bull that it's hurting:
http://www.forumula1.com/2012/f1/f1-new ... -solution/

Horner also hinted that the RB8 may have a secret innovation that Red Bull may not have brought to testing yet to hide it from their competitors:
http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/02/21/horne ... he-detail/

[Just_a_fan]

Another half baked idea.

Brian

Perhaps. But remember that the teams are allowed to use a different map at the starts to the rest of the race. This map has to run for the entire first lap (to stop people having TC for the first 100m).

The idea was that the map was activated during the formation lap to help keep the rears at close to optimum temp. This then continued for the first lap at which point the map was changed to the "long run" map.

I have no personal interest in whether this idea is correct or not but it is the nature of this forum to bring ideas forward for discussion. You don't like the idea, fine.