2012 Exhaust Blowing & Coanda

[Carlos]

@ Crucial_Xtreme For the sake of a wider, more accessible conversation; are you perhaps referring to the Coanda Effect? Here is a description, written in very broad strokes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect

Got to go ... it's time for milk and cookies.

[Pup]

Carlos, he didn't make it too clear, but Crucial's post is lifted verbatim from Gordon McCabe's blog post from last October where he was speculating about deflection of the exhaust using the airflow off the sidepods...

http://mccabism.blogspot.com/2011/10/ex ... -2012.html

But yes, we've talked about the coanda effect considerably in the McLaren thread. I've argued, and for myself take it as given, that it's how they are turning the exhaust to the floor.

[hardingfv32]

We have a rough idea that something is going on with the fuel delivery and the ignition timing, but exactly what has to happen with the throttle during off throttle blowing? I am going assume they need to stay open a fair amount to get a useful amount of pumped air flow. So we have the throttle open at idle, what happens to the throttle when the driver requests a 30% torque output? Is there a requirement for the throttle to close somewhat and assume a normal engine map?

Brian

[Mandrake]

Exactly ray, this is why I don't believe there is any illegal blowing in either car at the moment. And even if the fia bans it completely, Renault would be allowed to work on the engines to get the reliability up together with a couple of additional HP

[aral]

Exactly ray, this is why I don't believe there is any illegal blowing in either car at the moment. And even if the fia bans it completely, Renault would be allowed to work on the engines to get the reliability up together with a couple of additional HP

I doubt that Renault need to improve reliability, as their engine is almost totally reliable.

[Fredy4]

The RB was blowing, no doubt about it.

Put it this way, wouldn't you be very dissapointed if Redbull HADN'T used the loophole?

The sport is all about using loopholes to be faster and this is no different. Within seconds of seeing the new regs RB/Renault would have spotted how to claw some of it back.

Their mistake was using it in testing. Anybody, even on youtube, let alone at the track could hear it.

As I mentioned before, listen to any Newey interview and all he went on about was the loss of EBD. He is totally caught up on the idea and seemingly won't let it go.

My hope is he has wasted a lot of time on this and its now out the window. Not becasue I dont like RB, just because it would be nicer to see the top teams in a proper fight.

[Mr.G]

The sport is all about using loopholes to be faster and this is no different.

Is this only loop hole, or it is cheating? As i understand this, they need to use illegal opening of throttle valve to achieve the required bolwing efect. I'm not sure if I get it right, but this wasn't capable to monitor, so they (FIA) wan't to update the ECU software to be capable to chceck if everithing is allright.

If I understand it right this is from my point of wiev cheating not loop hole as there are regulations for the opening of throttle valve.

But maybe I understand it wrong. So corect me.

[Intego]

Wild speculations and accusations around here. According to AMuS Merc found the possibility of hot blowing in the overrun, told it to the FIA who now reprogrammes the ECU for Melbourne. Nobody used this loophole, Renault didn't even know about it. Plus it would have caused a highly increased fuel consumption.

Source: AMuS (German) and Google translator

[Fredy4]

Renault didnt know about it?

How would they not?

They have teams of people working on the enigne. Very clever people who know how to also play the game of finding loopholes. Like I said, Renault (and all the other engine people) would have spotted this straight away.

There is a big differnece between not knowing about it and just not mentioning it to anybody.

Merc know how much RB rely on the EBD and as such know that all things being equal, RB have more to lose than Merc have to gain - so got it banned.

[Fredy4]

As for cheating vs a loophole - its a very fine line!

<snip>

Blowing is banned, if they find a way around it that passes all tests then its not cheating as far as I'm concerned, they have just been clever.

[aral]

As for cheating vs a loophole - its a very fine line!

<snip>

Blowing is banned, if they find a way around it that passes all tests then its not cheating as far as I'm concerned, they have just been clever.

<snip>

This subject is long since played out.

[Hail22]

Anyways will be interesting to see how RBR will react to the ECU update, i think there is more to this then people know with regards to teams being upset with RBR and another team going against a mutual agreement with the RRA.

[gandharva]

Wild speculations and accusations around here. According to AMuS Merc found the possibility of hot blowing in the overrun, told it to the FIA who now reprogrammes the ECU for Melbourne. Nobody used this loophole, Renault didn't even know about it. Plus it would have caused a highly increased fuel consumption.

Source: AMuS (German) and Google translator

Yupp. According to Mercedes engineers, exploiting this loophole leads to:
1) dramatically increased fuel consumtion
2) shorter engine lifetime

Imo the negative effects are way too big/risky and this does in no way match the statements of Renault engineers we have seen so far, as they claim that their engine ist the most fuel efficent of all the engines available.

So my conclusion is, that this loophole only existed in theory and the FIA is going to completely close it now.

[Mr.G]

Yupp. According to Mercedes engineers, exploiting this loophole leads to:
1) dramatically increased fuel consumtion
2) shorter engine lifetime

Imo the negative effects are way too big/risky and this does in no way match the statements of Renault engineers we have seen so far, as they claim that their engine ist the most fuel efficent of all the engines available.

I think even due to the negative effects, if they can, they use it at least in Q3

[gandharva]

I think even due to the negative effects, if they can, they use it at least in Q3

No. Afaik it is not permitted to change mappings between quali and race since (Silverstone?) 2011.