Wings - drag v downforce

[kilcoo316]

From this pic and the VJM05, I find it intriguing that they're mapping pressures on the outside the wheels. I would've thought flow between the wheels and onto the sidepod was more intresting.

Much of the air which goes outside the front wheels will eventually come back into the rear diffuser deck.


Your front wing endplates are vital to good rear floor performance - thats why they are looking at it.


Not for drag reasons - no-one really cares about drag in F1 - its all about downforce.

[joseff]

Nice explanation, appreciate it thanks.

[jordangp]

no-one really cares about drag in F1 - its all about downforce.

I would disagree there for sure. If it was all about downforce, imagine how many wing profiles would just be bolted on. It's about finding the right balance between downforce and drag. Trying to extract the most downforce from minimum drag. Cars with more downforce may be slower on many tracks, because they are draggier also.

[shelly]

Much of the air which goes outside the front wheels will eventually come back into the rear diffuser deck.


Your front wing endplates are vital to good rear floor performance - thats why they are looking at it.


Not for drag reasons - no-one really cares about drag in F1 - its all about downforce.

+1

[shelly]

@jordan: like kilkoo says, and Reca said, it is all about downforce, except at monza maybe

[aleks_ader]

@jordan: like kilkoo says, and Reca said, it is all about downforce, except at monza maybe

That is ABSOLUTLY NOT true.... Jordan have totaly right... Balance is the key....

[jordangp]

@jordan: like kilkoo says, and Reca said, it is all about downforce, except at monza maybe

That is ABSOLUTLY NOT true.... Jordan have totaly right... Balance is the key....

Thankyou someone who atleast knows the basics

[Owen.C93]

@jordan: like kilkoo says, and Reca said, it is all about downforce, except at monza maybe

That is ABSOLUTLY NOT true.... Jordan have totaly right... Balance is the key....

And the balance is incredibly in favour of downforce over drag.

[Blackout]

Williams proves that drag is mega important; look at their super thin front brake ducts

[kilcoo316]

I would disagree there for sure. If it was all about downforce, imagine how many wing profiles would just be bolted on.

Yes.

Lets imagine.







The teams have as many wing profiles on the car as the rules allow.

[kilcoo316]

Williams proves that drag is mega important; look at their super thin front brake ducts

Where does the air that (1)doesn't go through the brake duct and (2)does go through the brake duct, go?


(1) to the sidepod and diffuser deck.

(2) through the wheel, wreaking havoc on the air from the front wing endplate that you want to help feed the diffuser deck.


The main reason for skinny brake ducts is not drag related.

[jordangp]

The teams have as many wing profiles on the car as the rules allow.

They don't actually You could have massive ones at the front of the sidepods, and much larger ones on the front wing, across the diffuser area etc. You could see a whole row of them in the central 150mm. If it was about pure downforce, the cars wouldn't be very good down straights at all

The idea is trying to extract as much downforce as possible from as little drag.

As for the car you posted, those regulations were a lot more open, and infact you could of added even more wings than they did. Many of those are for flow conditioning, and not generating downforce.

[kilcoo316]

You could have massive ones at the front of the sidepods, and much larger ones on the front wing, across the diffuser area etc. You could see a whole row of them in the central 150mm. If it was about pure downforce, the cars wouldn't be very good down straights at all

The idea is trying to extract as much downforce as possible from as little drag.

As for the car you posted, those regulations were a lot more open, and infact you could of added even more wings than they did. Many of those are for flow conditioning, and not generating downforce.

I dunno where to start really.

Ever heard of wake effects? You cannot just add wings in tandem and expect results.


Oh, and regarding along the centreline - remember these:






I'll say it again - the teams add as many wing profiles to their cars as the rules allow.

They don't add them where they'll f**k up the flow for downstream wings - meaning less overall downforce and a severely compromised aero-balance.

[amouzouris]

needless to say that that massive wing was added for monaco..the track that needs the highest downforce and the only track that drag matters very very little..

[jordangp]

I dunno where to start really.

Ever heard of wake effects? You cannot just add wings in tandem and expect results.


Oh, and regarding along the centreline - remember these:

(Removed Images)

I'll say it again - the teams add as many wing profiles to their cars as the rules allow.

They don't add them where they'll f**k up the flow for downstream wings - meaning less overall downforce and a severely compromised aero-balance.

As for wake effects, that was kinda my point, as to why they don't just bolt wings on.

As for the centre line, why don't they have several wings under the rear wing, and at the back of the diffuser? That's free space, it's been used before. Sometimes you don't need all that downforce. It's not a case of 'add it on, it must be better that way'

as you said it's about balance which was kinda my first point again. Peak downforce doesn't always win. It's a compromise of drag and downforce, and the requirements will be different for each track, base4d on the corners, straights etc. Monza they will have a lot less, Monaco they will have a lot more, they don't just cover the car in winglets for downforce all the time wherever possible. The only track where that is almost the case is Monaco.