Toro Rosso STR7 Ferrari

[MIKEY_!]

Ha ha edited 1 minute after I posted. I think you are right about the interaction with the diffuser, the closer proximity of the monkey seat to the diffuser is giving them some gains.

[wesley123]

Excuse me, but interaction with the diffuser? There is a whole crashbox/gearbox in the way, how can that even possibly have an effect on the diffuser at all?

As for the setup being less efficient than an longer chord/higher AoA wing. I dont know. You are essentially playing with different flow fields, and the wing is to cope with that. We see more curling up wing designs than the other way around, so I would say the headrest etc. really influences the wing design.

Also you have to take sensitivity into account of the wing as well as stall.

I am in the opinion that this set up is more efficient

[Paul]

Didn't you get the memo, drag and efficiency are irrelevant?

On a more serious note, I'd love to see a CFD comparison of same car with and without the additional wing. There must be at least some conditions where it is preferable to use it to achieve necessary downforce numbers, otherwise why bother?

[MIKEY_!]

The monkey seat might create a low pressure area that helps to extract air from the diffuser better than the rear wing could (as it's closer). Also wesley you may recall in my original post about this arrangement I said:

but maybe that works better with the double airbox

And yes it probably is more efficient otherwise they wouldn't bother would they, unless they never use it again of course.

[Carlo's]

[MIKEY_!]

Well there's your problem!

[stefan_]

What the...

[PhillipM]

The simbian sofa is directing the flames nicely.

[MIKEY_!]

Yes that aero setup is creating lots of up-wash off the rear of the car, well done TR!

[Hail22]

FLAME ON! now where is the other members of the Fantastic 4?

[tinvek]

hell of a way to "flow vis" your airflow

[wesley123]

The monkey seat might create a low pressure area that helps to extract air from the diffuser better than the rear wing could (as it's closer).

So you create an low pressure zone all the way through the gearbox/crashbox? I do not even see how that is possible. The monkey seat wont have any effect at all on the diffuser, since the crashbox/gearbox is in between both to create interaction.

[Pierce89]

The monkey seat might create a low pressure area that helps to extract air from the diffuser better than the rear wing could (as it's closer).

So you create an low pressure zone all the way through the gearbox/crashbox? I do not even see how that is possible. The monkey seat wont have any effect at all on the diffuser, since the crashbox/gearbox is in between both to create interaction.

Incorrect, the combined upwash of wing and simian sofa definitely interacts with the didduser

[Pierce89]

Didn't you get the memo, drag and efficiency are irrelevant?

On a more serious note, I'd love to see a CFD comparison of same car with and without the additional wing. There must be at least some conditions where it is preferable to use it to achieve necessary downforce numbers, otherwise why bother?

This...
Nobody said drag or efficiency were irrelevant over in the battle thread, only that F1 teams put all their effort into increasing DF rather than reducing drag because with a winged open wheel car all the drag reduction measures in the world will still leave you with a crapload of drag

Also f1 is populated with slow corners making DF all the more important

[wesley123]

Incorrect, the combined upwash of wing and simian sofa definitely interacts with the didduser

I would like to know in what way since below that is the crash box, so unless you create a low pressure zone through the whole crashbox I do not see how it has an effect on the diffuser