2012 Stalled wings, F/ W ducts & DDRS

[AnthonyG]

They change it like any other wing.

I can't remember a person who mounted more new wings last season than Michael Schumacher. So I'dd seem silly if they didn't cover that angle.

[GrizzleBoy]

can anybody tell me 1 thing. if the front wing breaks how they can change it? there is a chance to break the suspension to a minor contact? so thin wing


( i know my english is fail hope you guys understand what i try to say)

The "front wing" stops at the body work just before the suspension systems so if the wing were to become so badly damaged that the impact went upto its mounting points, the mounting points would likely just fail and the wing would crumple and fall off to stop the shock of the impact travelling further along the car.

[Trocola]

From Twitter:

@f1talks
A lot of different opinions about what I found yesterday on Mercedes front wing. Here is a better picture i.imgur.com/lfwSJ.jpg #F1

I think that's just a shadow from winglets under the front wing, like these from last year Mclaren:




Trocola

[Metalrulz]

That definitely looks like an opening on the front wing but i guess that opening would be too small for an F-DUCT opening. Even if it is an opening then i dont think it would be big enough for it to have a significant effect.

[thomin]

Two weeks ago, AMuS wrote about speculations that Mercedes may have a classical F-duct that is coupled with DRS (not related with the front wing F-duct).
See here:
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 19554.html
Google translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... 19554.html

Yesterday, Red Bull's Helmut Marko repeated it as fact in a TV interview with an Austrian TV Station:
http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... ehlen.html
Google translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... ehlen.html

This F-duct should give Mercedes an advantage in Qualifying when DRS can be activated at will. Marko reckons that Red Bull won't be able to copy the system in time for the Australian GP.

[yener]

So the Fduct might be connected to the FW, which means it will bend the FW while DRS is activated and then the car gets a little bit more topspeed.

So it's not always active?

[thomin]

So the Fduct might be connected to the FW, which means it will bend the FW while DRS is activated and then the car gets a little bit more topspeed.

So it's not always active?

It's not sure whether or not the FW has a separate f-duct, or whether it is the DRS coupled f-duct Marko is tailing about. The AMuS article writes of it as two different systems. The FW f-duct that stabilizes the air flow around the car and the DRS f-duct which is only activated when DRS is activated in order to increase top speed.

Marko only speaks about the DRS f-duct.

So I guess that the mysterious FW f-duct is NOT coupled with DRS. According to the AMuS article, the FW f-duct is activated by velocity pressure.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

So the Fduct might be connected to the FW, which means it will bend the FW while DRS is activated and then the car gets a little bit more topspeed.

So it's not always active?

It's not sure whether or not the FW has a separate f-duct, or whether it is the DRS coupled f-duct Marko is tailing about. The AMuS article writes of it as two different systems. The FW f-duct that stabilizes the air flow around the car and the DRS f-duct which is only activated when DRS is activated in order to increase top speed.

Marko only speaks about the DRS f-duct.

So I guess that the mysterious FW f-duct is NOT coupled with DRS.

So we have the w-DUCT on the front wing.. it's officially called the "W-Duct" and on DRS activation another Duct on the rear wing?

[Fredy4]

No, this f-duct they are on about is the rear wing only.

The front one is somethign else.

I think there must be an f-duct hole sort of thing either opened of closed when the DRS move the wing flap.

[Pup]

The front wing is similar to McLaren's 'basking shark' from prior to the f-duct days, with the exception that it apparently has a flap that will open at higher pressures...


The rear wing f-duct is certainly something new - I don't see how you could blow the wing at all with the current regs, actively or not.

The w-duct is a unicorn. Just the pilot flow for an f-duct required a much larger pipe. There's no way they could suck a meaningful flow of air through the crazy-straws people are imagining.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Agree pup.

The W-duct business and front wing blowing appears to be a massive double bluff.
Showing it first in Japan last year(a critical time in car development), And now all this hush hush covering of front wings etc.

If it does gain a load of time, I really dont think Merc would be testing it or leaking the info out in Oct2011.

I could be wrong, but this has all the hall marks of sending opposing teams barking up the wrong tree.

[Ganxxta]

The rear wing f-duct is certainly something new - I don't see how you could blow the wing at all with the current regs, actively or not.

I also can't imagine something blowing on the rearwing.
According to Marko its activated with the DRS, so one thing what I can imagine is when the top flap opens it somehow creates a stalling effect on the lower flap...
Remember last years flow attachment issues they had, maybe they learned something from it.

So nowadays everything which involves stalling is an F-Duct?

[snoop1050]

The rear wing f-duct is certainly something new - I don't see how you could blow the wing at all with the current regs, actively or not.

I also can't imagine something blowing on the rearwing.
According to Marko its activated with the DRS, so one thing what I can imagine is when the top flap opens it somehow creates a stalling effect on the lower flap...
Remember last years flow attachment issues they had, maybe they learned something from it.

So nowadays everything which involves stalling is an F-Duct?

merko is just taking attention off the redbull

[thomin]

merko is just taking attention off the redbull

I really don't think so. I don't think he would make such claims if he wasn't convinced they're true. He said that Mercedes has a DRS triggered F-duct and that Red Bull is already working on it. There are really no two ways about interpreting that.

As for the FW F-duct (or W-duct), that might be a myth. Although at least the evidence from 2011 seemed to be conclusive that they were testing a FW F-duct. But of course that doesn't mean that it's on the car now.

Then again, think about the passive F-duct Mercedes was using in 2010. They put a lot of effort and engineering work into that. I remember one interview with Brawn from early 2011, where he said that it was a mistake to tie so many resources to that project. Maybe they're now reaping the benefits of that work after all, because they have a big head-start over everybody else there. A passive F-duct is very difficult to tune, so the 2010 experience might be very beneficial for a potential 2012 FW F-duct.

[AnthonyG]

I have quite a simple idea on how a DRS-activated F-duct could work.
It consists of a fixed air inlet in the rear wing that gets exposed when the DRS opens te wing.