Red Bull RB8 Renault

[kilcoo316]

Air backing up/going around the front of the rear tire hits that vane sideways, and the vane directs that flow over the top of the exhaust flow that is sealing the diffuser.

Running fast air alongside anything does not in itself "seal" it. You know that.

Otherwise the teams wouldn't bother with the horns in front of the sidepods as an attempt to seal the side of the floor/sidepod.



http://motorsportpress.files.wordpress. ... tel-2a.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Bull_2.jpg


The exhaust flow runs between the top of that relatively benign part of the diffuser and the beam wing, so as to affect the downforce as little as possible when on/off throttle.



Here is the original design with the same wheel vane:

http://www.formule1.nl/media/uploads/me ... 7-0412.jpg

[.poz]

The exhaust comes out on the corner of the sidepod. It is obvious that at cornering speeds it is aimed at the notch in front of the gap for the rear tire.

It is equally obvious that the exhaust will not make it there at higher speeds due to being blown farther aft. And that it will instead be blown on top of the bridge instead of alongside it.

I agree. But watching how it is shaped and where the thermal insulator is i think that at some speed part of the exhaust is supposed to go under the bridge.

[dren]

Thank you Crucial.


Do you have a link to that?

As good as I can do-->

Gary Anderson has it all wrong. I can't believe this was posted in Autosport. Not only is the exhaust flow in his illustration wrong, the slots in the rear wing are not there due to the regulations.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Thank you Crucial.


Do you have a link to that?

As good as I can do-->

Gary Anderson has it all wrong. I can't believe this was posted in Autosport. Not only is the exhaust flow in his illustration wrong, the slots in the rear wing are not there due to the regulations.

As if loopholes have never been found?

[Adrian Newby]

Running fast air alongside anything does not in itself "seal" it.

Of course not, but that was not the point of my post so I didn't go into it. The nuts and bolts version is that the exhaust hits the vane and gets directed down into the notch and toward the tire, while the air coming from the outside of the vane (which includes up to half of the exhaust) goes up and over the vane, crossing over the lower exhaust flow. The combination of these two creates the vortex.



It is clear to me, and many others, that Adrian Newey intended for the exhaust to make it to the sealing area of the diffuser.

The exhaust comes out on the corner of the sidepod. It is obvious that at cornering speeds it is aimed at the notch in front of the gap for the rear tire.

It is equally obvious that the exhaust will not make it there at higher speeds due to being blown farther aft. And that it will instead be blown on top of the bridge instead of alongside it.

[dren]

As if loopholes have never been found?

The exhaust flow he has is what Mercedes is doing, not what Mclaren, Ferrari (initially), and Sauber are doing. nsmikle did computer simulation on the Mclaren flow and it most certainly is blowing the side skirts of the diffuser.

If you "enhance" the pictures of the Red Bull rear wing you can see they are reflections of the drive shaft and other rear components.

[kilcoo316]

It is clear to me, and many others, that Adrian Newey intended for the exhaust to make it to the sealing area of the diffuser.

I have led you to water. I have shown you that it is water. I have explained what water is. And still, you will not drink.

So let's just agree to disagree.

As far as I see, Newey is guiding the exhaust flow quite clearly away from anywhere that will overly affect the diffuser.

If he wanted to seal the diffuser, then he would need a longitudinal vortex with the bottom of it circulating away from the car centreline. No such bodywork exists to induce this (outside of the vane infront of the rear wheel which existed prior to RBR moving the exhausts from near car centreline to near widest point on sidepod).


If you want to base it on pressure sealing - fine. When the exhaust plume has higher total pressure than under the diffuser, it will leak under the diffuser limiting the massflow induced under the car floor = reducing downforce. When the exhaust plume has lower total pressure than local it may entrain flow out from under the diffuser.


So... at low speed, when the exhaust plume has a higher than local total pressure - it will leak under the diffuser.

Hows that sealing going now?

[Adrian Newby]

It is clear to me, and many others, that Adrian Newey intended for the exhaust to make it to the sealing area of the diffuser.

I have led you to water. I have shown you that it is water. I have explained what water is. And still, you will not drink.

So let's just agree to disagree.

Hows that sealing going now?

Ask Adrian Newey. Not as good as he had hoped, from early reports...

[Intego]

According to AMuS there must be no openings on the front/upper side of the wing. So it is to be a passive f-duct with its slots on the back/lower side which is fed from the beam wing and end plates.

Here's the article:
German original
Google translation

PS: I'm not saying I'm a believer ...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

As if loopholes have never been found?

The exhaust flow he has is what Mercedes is doing, not what Mclaren, Ferrari (initially), and Sauber are doing. nsmikle did computer simulation on the Mclaren flow and it most certainly is blowing the side skirts of the diffuser.

If you "enhance" the pictures of the Red Bull rear wing you can see they are reflections of the drive shaft and other rear components.

No Anderson is clearly talking about the rear wing.--> http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3898 ... detail.jpg

As for the exhaust, maybe you haven't read this entire thread, or even last page, because I specifically said the exhaust was going to the floor at low speed just like McLaren.

[shelly]

@kilkoo: I think that the footplate vortex i the diffuser is the key aspect fo the so called "sealing". If you accelerate the vortex with the exhausts you get more downforce.

[kilcoo316]

@kilkoo: I think that the footplate vortex i the diffuser is the key aspect fo the so called "sealing". If you accelerate the vortex with the exhausts you get more downforce.

Pumping energy in from the exhaust (even if its irrotational) would prevent vortex burst for a bit longer wouldn't it?


Not something I've ever examined or simulated to be honest...

[shelly]

Not only delayed bursting, but especially vortex stretching. Strong stretched vortex flowing under the footplate

[Adrian Newby]

The exhaust comes out on the corner of the sidepod. It is obvious that at cornering speeds it is aimed at the notch in front of the gap for the rear tire.

It is equally obvious that the exhaust will not make it there at higher speeds due to being blown farther aft. And that it will instead be blown on top of the bridge instead of alongside it.

I agree. But watching how it is shaped and where the thermal insulator is i think that at some speed part of the exhaust is supposed to go under the bridge.

I think they might have rounded the sidepod area just above the tunnel to ease/promote the flow in that direction, if that was what they were going for. The tunnel also seems just a little too far forward to catch the exhaust when the car is in motion.

[N12ck]

As if loopholes have never been found?

The exhaust flow he has is what Mercedes is doing, not what Mclaren, Ferrari (initially), and Sauber are doing. nsmikle did computer simulation on the Mclaren flow and it most certainly is blowing the side skirts of the diffuser.

If you "enhance" the pictures of the Red Bull rear wing you can see they are reflections of the drive shaft and other rear components.

No Anderson is clearly talking about the rear wing.--> http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3898 ... detail.jpg

As for the exhaust, maybe you haven't read this entire thread, or even last page, because I specifically said the exhaust was going to the floor at low speed just like McLaren.

How on earth is this legal?!?!