COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[hairy_scotsman]

The projected economic impact assumes that the average visitor of the 120,000 race crowd spends $2,500 for food, accommodation, transportation, shopping and entertainment in Texas. This sounds relatively reasonable.

I think so.

I'm an average middle-class guy. When I went to Montreal in 2010 I spent about that much over 4 days on a shoestring budget.

I don't think reasonable means what you think it means.

The Comptroller's projections also take into account that most GP visitors tend to stay in town much longer than visitors to, say, a Super Bowl or a NASCAR race, partly because of the extended nature of the event, and partly because so many are from other countries and tend to make it an extended stay for sightseeing, etc.

[WhiteBlue]

Without the state sponsoring the tax money for multiple years an F1 race with a purpose build facility like the one in Austin is simply not viable in the USA. The history of the USGP at the IMS has shown that. Without substantial state sponsorship or sponsorship of similar magnitude from other sources no USGP promoter can afford FOM's race fees. The market is simply not there to pay the race fees by ticket sales only.

That's simply not true. The USGP was always the most-attended grand prix of the year. Always. This fact is somehow consistently lost on people during discussions about the American F1 market.

It was not discontinued due to a lack of funds. Ecclestone just thought FOM was the only entity that should profit from the USGP, so when the time came to negotiate a new contract, he jacked up the fee accordingly. And much to his credit, Tony George then said, in effect, "...and the horse you rode in on." The F1 landscape would look a lot different if more promoters had similar stones.

We have discussed the history and figures of the USGP in this thread. I suggest you read it. The race was initially viable when they had 170,000 visitors and Bernie gave them a special rate (believed to be $12-17m) which was even lower than the average F1 race fee. When the initial multi year contract came up for renewal he asked for his average fee which was over 20m and closer to 25m by that time. That was simply not affordable to IMS. They had lost attendance and were down to crowds of 120,000 which incidentally is just what Austin is projecting now.

To appreciate the market for race fees you have to know that Malaysia and Arabian races paid in excess of $40m per race and are committed to pay $50m in existing contracts for future races. Silverstone btw. is not very far behind that.

Of course the market reality is not something that race fans can be happy about. But it is a reality as long as some rich states pay whatever it takes to get a race.

[bhall]

The Comptroller's projections also [...]

You know what? That's fair. I often lose sight of the "bigger picture" like that because it usually flies in the face of my own spending habits. My expenditures for the USGP would be as follows: fuel, ticket, parking. And that's it. I went to a couple of concerts this week and bought a few $9 beers, which was very much out of character for me, but it also served as a great reminder of why I'm so frugal at "events."

We have discussed the history and figures of the USGP in this thread [...]

I know. And I don't exactly agree with many of its conclusions. (Shocking, right?)

But, there's enough said on the subject on this page for now. The race was viable until FOM increased its fee. Private enterprises in America don't often lend themselves to engage in merely "break even" propositions. (In fact, that's why programs like the METF exist in the first place.) Nevertheless, as you've stated, other businesses and governments will happily break even or lose money on F1, so Ecclestone had no problem being shown the door. He had a sheik on the other line anyway.

(As big of a fan of F1 as I am, I quite honestly can't wait for the day when Ecclestone's business practices finally strangle F1 to death. It will be worth it just to see the looks on the faces of everyone who was complicit in FOM's relentless pursuit of short-term profits.)

I guess the reason why I interjected myself here is that I'm just tired of seeing preached as fact the dubious notion that public subsidies are justified for sporting events because of the so-called "economic impact" such events have on the areas hosting them. It's one of the biggest lies ever told. Even the Olympics, when all things are considered, rarely recoup the initial expenditures.

At any rate, I'll get off my soapbox. Carry on.

[strad]

I figured to spend betwwen $2500 and $3000.
And I figure it will be ready..

China puts up a 30-story hotel in two weeks

If they can do thay I figure we can lay a little asphalt

[WhiteBlue]

bhallg2k, I think we have closed some of the gap between our views by the discussion. For me a regular participation as an F1 race goer is not feasible although I live only 300 km from Hockenheim and 450 km from Nürburgring or Monza. I could do a day trip to a GP for $650 if I were interested. I have seen a number of GPs locally among them Silverstone and Indianapolis. And frankly I prefer to watch the races live from my HDTV. It would probably be different if you could have access to the paddock for a reasonable price but that is impossible in F1.

[Pup]

China puts up a 30-story hotel in two weeks

And it falls over in three.

[hairy_scotsman]

Kevin Schwantz weighs in on the MotoGP rights situation. It's worse than I thought:

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... witterfeed

Motorcycling legend Kevin Schwantz, who figured to be the public face of that race, has been mum on the subject for months. But in February, Schwantz sent a letter to Steve Sexton, the president of Circuit of the Americas, saying, "I urge you one final time to contact Mr. (Tavo) Hellmund about obtaining the rights to host a MotoGP race in Texas, after which I would be glad to open discussions with you as the new promoter. If you have not obtained such rights from Full Throttle, then unfortunately Circuit of the Americas will not be included as a round of the FIM Grand Prix Road Racing World Championship."

In his letter, Schwantz claimed, "For the benefit of the Austin facility and our Texas fans we entered into the most promoter-friendly contract in MotoGP with Full Throttle, the creator and an owner of the Circuit of the Americas project ... It is my understanding that Circuit of the Americas had the opportunity to obtain these rights on several occasions between late 2010 and the fall of 2011 but that Circuit of the Americas did not follow through."
Full Throttle is Hellmund's promotional company. In a lawsuit filed last week, Hellmund claimed there was an $18 million deal for the Circuit of the Americas to buy his share of the company and the rights to the Formula One and MotoGP races, but that the deal wasn't consummated as planned in an Oct. 25 meeting last year in the London office of Formula One boss Bernie Ecclestone.

In December, the track was able to renegotiate a contract for the Formula One race with Ecclestone after Hellmund's original contract was determined to be in breach.

No such deal has been reached regarding the rights to MotoGP.

Schwantz, a long-time friend of Hellmund's, wrote Sexton, "In the past others at the Circuit of the Americas have indicated that their group has attempted to obtain these rights from Mr. Hellmund for amounts ranging from $4 million to $17 million but that Mr. Hellmund declined."

Schwantz claimed he knew such offers hadn't been made and requested documentation of any such offers.

[FW17]

So it is out in the open, Tevo is holding another contract hostage.

[hairy_scotsman]

So it is out in the open, Tevo is holding another contract hostage.

Wow.

Read the article. The whole thing...then substantiate that assertion.

[WhiteBlue]

It is good to see KS remain faithful even if there may not be a Moto GP race for some time at COTA. There are different ways to skin a cat. If most of his contacts in the racing industry remain loyal to Tavo and he manages to get significant damages from his law suit we may see Epstein and Co dig their own graves. They seem to be set to piss off many race fans with their pricing policy and could end up loosing a lot of money in the venture. If they end up bust over the payment of damages Hellmund could come back and take the running of the circuit over from them.

[FW17]

I read it as Texas Motogp fans cant have a race as Tevo is holding a contract with no track, and will not let it happen until his pocket is filled.

[hairy_scotsman]

I read it as Texas Motogp fans cant have a race as Tevo is holding a contract with no track, and will not let it happen until his pocket is filled.

LOL.

At least you're entertaining....

Did you see this part?

in February, Schwantz sent a letter to Steve Sexton, the president of Circuit of the Americas, saying, "I urge you one final time to contact Mr. (Tavo) Hellmund about obtaining the rights to host a MotoGP race in Texas, after which I would be glad to open discussions with you as the new promoter. If you have not obtained such rights from Full Throttle, then unfortunately Circuit of the Americas will not be included as a round of the FIM Grand Prix Road Racing World Championship."

In other words, Schwantz is pleading, in writing, to COTA to at least contact Hellmund in re: the rights.

No such deal has been reached regarding the rights to MotoGP.

Schwantz, a long-time friend of Hellmund's, wrote Sexton, "In the past others at the Circuit of the Americas have indicated that their group has attempted to obtain these rights from Mr. Hellmund for amounts ranging from $4 million to $17 million but that Mr. Hellmund declined."

Schwantz claimed he knew such offers hadn't been made and requested documentation of any such offers.

In other words, Schwantz is telling COTA, in writing, to stop spreading the story that they've made multi-million dollar offers to Hellmund for the rights...and he's saying they have done no such thing.

[hairy_scotsman]

Sexton said in an email, "We are in discussions with several major race series who have reached out to us, and our confidence is high that three to five major world-class events, including a two-wheel championship, will be on the 2013 schedule — and that these races will take place under terms favorable to the Circuit and the series owners."

Hello WSBK.

That's the same as MotoGP, right?

[raymondu999]

Nope

[hairy_scotsman]

Nope