2012 Stalled wings, F/ W ducts & DDRS

[hollowBallistix]

um why the hell would they drive around the entire qualifying lap with the DRS open & this so called mythical DRS operated F-Duct front wing ? If the car was producing that much downforce with it activated then they would just run less wing at both ends of the car.

the DRS closes under braking into a corner anyway, the Merc last year had a problem with the flow re-attaching to the wing which caused unbalancing issues, but other teams managed to get it right, it would be more beneficial for them to have an F-Duct front wing that just reduced the drag at certain speeds that's not linked to the DRS system, as this can't be used at any point in the race.

[MercAMGF1Fans]

Not really, Might have some proof, just trying to enhance the video from the filming day.. will upload it as soon as in full HD glory, and Slowed down

[Ferraripilot]

um why the hell would they drive around the entire qualifying lap with the DRS open & this so called mythical DRS operated F-Duct front wing ? If the car was producing that much downforce with it activated then they would just run less wing at both ends of the car.

the DRS closes under braking into a corner anyway, the Merc last year had a problem with the flow re-attaching to the wing which caused unbalancing issues, but other teams managed to get it right, it would be more beneficial for them to have an F-Duct front wing that just reduced the drag at certain speeds that's not linked to the DRS system, as this can't be used at any point in the race.

Well, even if the number went from 56% open during qualifying to 70% open, that is indeed massive and worth laughing until your sides hurt.

[hollowBallistix]

56% to 70% ? what nonsense am I reading !!

If the car is producing so much downforce that they can run in qualifying with the DRS open more than other teams, lets say using your figures all other teams have the DRS open for 50% of the lap, but Merc have it open for 76%, all they would do is reduce the amount of downforce being applied to the car when the DRS is closed, so that they would then be able to use the DRS for 50% of the lap, this way the car would be more efficient during the RACE !!! where DRS can only be used as an overtaking aid.

[raymondu999]

Typically a driver deactivates their DRS just before or during a braking zone to gain brake balance before entering a corner where they know they need the full wing.

No - they do it because it will give them better braking (because of more downforce) and it will help slow the car down (drag).

How fabulous would it be seeing the Mercedes cruise around qualifying with DRS open the entire time? I would probably cry laughing at all the head scratching going on in the pits.

DRS is only of any use if you're at maximum acceleration - or if you're on the straight - if you're at terminal velocity. You need to have enough downforce to take the corner flat out in the first place - THEN; you MIGHT have enough downforce to take it flat out, with DRS.

[shelly]

Yep it would. That's its main benefit (other than a higher terminal velocity)

The main benefit is constant aero balance = no forward shift of the center fo pressure when opening the drs

[PlatinumZealot]

Are the front wing profiles allowed to be slotted? And do they have slots?
I know slots are illegal for the rear wing.

It is hard for me to see how the front wing can be stalled too with little air supply coming out any slots. I need somebody to draw a diagram.

[raymondu999]

Yep it would. That's its main benefit (other than a higher terminal velocity)

The main benefit is constant aero balance = no forward shift of the center fo pressure when opening the drs

I was talking of the main benefit OF the DRS

[dbwmhn]

The benefit of the Merc DRS in Barca this year was about 18 km/h. Clearly the best drs in the field. So maby an DRS activated F-Duct is the answer to this...

Source for the 18 km/h is AMuS

[MGPW03]

How fabulous would it be seeing the Mercedes cruise around qualifying with DRS open the entire time? I would probably cry laughing at all the head scratching going on in the pits.

THIS!!! =D> =D> would be awesome, will have to get a massive bucket of popcorn now to watch Quali

Whatever may happen in Melbourne Quali, I can't stop laughing imagining how fantastic it would look. I know it is very unlikely but it could have been perfect thing after two frustrating years. =D> =D>

[Hail22]

Lets hope this doesn't happen....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kt53kiSc0A[/youtube]

[skgoa]

@sqgoa: you seem convinced about what you write, but labelling what I wrote as crazy is superficial.

You have to take into account that I did not discuss the merits the w-duct at all, only cited it to make clear to other posters I was not dicussing that.

The problem is that people keep citing the w-duct, even though it gets shot down again and agian.

About ruling of a front wing f-duct, arguments and counter arguments of its legality have been discussed. Why do you write it is forbidden by the rules? Maybe we have missed something. Can you point to the new part in the rules that allowed for this system in 2011 and does not allow it for 2012?

The system they used last year almost certainly was a blown flap, the exact opposit of what the f-duct did. But even if it was stalling the front wing - and in that case we would have had video evidence of noses/wings not being pressed into the road by downforce, which clearly is what happened even though they ran their supposed "FW f-duct" - it was a passive effect. Steering it via DRS would break the "no driver-controlled aero device other than DRS" rule.

[Gridlock]

Don't suppose someone with an image measuring proggy wants put some numbers up for the size of various 'cooling holes', bring a bit of science to this?

From video the AMG hole appears huge. I'd be interested in which teams go up to the regulated limit (as it appears AMG and perhaps RBR have done) and which have gone less, as in year's past.

I refer, once again, to Mark Webber's chilly toes and to the fact that Piola put *hours* into observing AMG last year before claiming certain wings had slots in their underneath. Either of these is more valid data, to me, than much of this speculation and opinion.

[shelly]

@skgoa: Ok I see you think the w-duct is nonsense. But do not get upset if I say that people have talked about it.

About front wing device on the w02: I do not have proof to say if it was for stalling or for increasing circulation; in doubt, at the moment, I would go for the former hypothesis. I think there were more straightforward ways to increase front load if they wanted. As you have a different idea, please expand on it.

About rules: of course this device exploits a loophole and may raise some arguments. The point in fvaour of it (which maybe I did not explain clearly) is that the driver activates nothing but the drs; then this hypothetical front wing f-duct passively reacts to the pressure change around the car.

@raymond999: sorry. I misread your post (and mistyped).

@n_smikle: the flow to stall the front wing may well come from the front nose slot; the pipe from the rear just deviates it.

[raymondu999]

@raymond999: sorry. I misread your post (and mistyped).

Cheers mate - we're all human