are ferrari playing the long game ?

[Pierce89]

This thread cracks me up. Ferrari is by far the most important team in F1, and make no mistake, they will be back. I'd put my money on it being before this season is up.

[lebesset]

What a thread! No, Ferrari will not give up on this season and develop a new car for the future:
1) That would be analogous to another company dropping its advertising program for a year. Battling for wins in F1 is a key part of Ferrari's business model.
2) Montezemolo's ego, Italian national pride, Ferrari's owner base, (and business reality) mandate that Ferrari go all out to win every year. They can not do less than 100%.
2) There is no reason to assume that Ferrari would be able to develop a winning car for the future -- especially if it is not fully engaged in racing as they do so. They would -- in a sense -- be developing in a vacuum.
3) As stated above, Fry did not break up a winning team. It broke up years ago. Change is prerequisite to growth and success in all things. The question is, are the new people the right people? Too soon to say.
4) An earlier poster hit it right on the head: past Ferrari success was based on using their most important resources -- Fiorano and Mugello -- to do real world testing and development. They lost the ability to use those resources. In addition, their reliance on real world testing led to a lower level of skill in the use of their wind tunnel. Finally, a Ferrari race car traditionally is a mount for the heart of a Ferrari, its engine. Changing rules have voided two of Ferrari's key weapons -- real world testing and engine development.

IMHO, the F2012 will be competitive this year and Ferrari will continue to be competitive in F1 as long as they choose to compete. Personally, I'd love to see Ferrari leave F1 for LMP. IMHO, the leaders for whom F1 is simply a money machine want F1 to become a spec formula.

1 ] totally disagree ; classic business mistake to keep on following a losing line ...as it stands ferrari are [ for the reasons you state ] going to sit in the 3rd to 5th best team slot if they carry on their recent strategy ; if they bite the bullet and try to leapfrog they will stay there anyway temporarily

2 ] perhaps , but they are not getting there so they have to change track ; they cannot , as you state , develop the car by a huge testing programme ..I wonder if eddie irvine kept a record of just how many development laps he did !

2[?] much development work in season is done for short term gains , sometimes even for a particular race ; if ferrari stop putting resources to that in the 2012 season they will be better able to develop for 2013 ...in other words strategic rather than tactical

3] totally agree , except to add that politics broke up the team

4 ] exactly so

5]depends what you mean by competitive ; I am on record elsewhere on this forum explaining why I think that the renault engined teams have an advantage this year ,RBR to be at least joint first , but lotus making a step forward ; couple that with mercedes having finally been given resources to do the job and I think ferrari will do well to maintain their 3rd place in 2012

can't wait to find out !

[raymondu999]

1) That would be analogous to another company dropping its advertising program for a year.

Taking a loss now if it means a sustainable high level of profit in the future is a good move.

[CHT]

Running an F1 team is not a game for Ferrari, it is their core business. I dont see how is it possible for a team to pump in hundreds of million just to play game. Do they tell their engineers to look here, down your tools and lets have some wine over football.

I think ESP did highlighted several good points on their failure, and personally I would also add that the engine freeze rules is killing them and they are just too proud to admit it. So you could be right, this game might last till 2014.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

1) That would be analogous to another company dropping its advertising program for a year.

Taking a loss now if it means a sustainable high level of profit in the future is a good move.

I agree 110%. And from the sounds of it that's what they're trying to do. They will test the updated launch exhaust position in Mugello with the expectation it will provide a significant increase in performance taking the to the top of the grid. They aren't saying they won't be able to challenge for podiums until then, only saying their performance isn't at 100%.
My only concern is what if they don't get it right? They didn't the first time, what makes the 2nd any different? Hopefully all the data collected in Jerez will help them get it right. But as obvious as it is, with confirmation from Domenicali, Ferrari are behind the others(top teams) in simulation. Mainly CFD, but also in aero. They've upgraded since last year but it's not as easy as buying the latest software you've never used and boom you're on top. They will need time and experience to get to the level of McLaren or Red Bull in certain areas. As well as hiring more people for these specific tasks. But as Stefano said, it's hard to find the right people.
In due time!! )

[Nando]

No team is better then the people who run it.
They need a genius in the form of Newey or Byrne if they want to dominate the sport once again.

Ferrari will be back. A look through history will tell you just that.
Question is when..

08 they were good, 09 was a loophole year, 10 was semi good but the RBR was in another dimension. 11 everyone was playing catch up with RBR just improving what already was superior.

Regulations need to stay the same in order for teams to catch up. IF things change all the time it will only be bad for the sport.

Look at Silverstone, no EBD and Ferrari was superior in the high speed corners.
Vettel was slower then Webber etc.

[raymondu999]

1) That would be analogous to another company dropping its advertising program for a year.

Taking a loss now if it means a sustainable high level of profit in the future is a good move.

I agree 110%. And from the sounds of it that's what they're trying to do. They will test the updated launch exhaust position in Mugello with the expectation it will provide a significant increase in performance taking the to the top of the grid. They aren't saying they won't be able to challenge for podiums until then, only saying their performance isn't at 100%.
My only concern is what if they don't get it right? They didn't the first time, what makes the 2nd any different? Hopefully all the data collected in Jerez will help them get it right. But as obvious as it is, with confirmation from Domenicali, Ferrari are behind the others(top teams) in simulation. Mainly CFD, but also in aero. They've upgraded since last year but it's not as easy as buying the latest software you've never used and boom you're on top. They will need time and experience to get to the level of McLaren or Red Bull in certain areas. As well as hiring more people for these specific tasks. But as Stefano said, it's hard to find the right people.
In due time!! )

Maybe they should stop all 2012/2013 development now - and commit all resources to 2014; hit the ground then with a 1.5s advantage; and take it from there.

*note: I'm not being sarcastic

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Maybe they should stop all 2012/2013 development now - and commit all resources to 2014; hit the ground then with a 1.5s advantage; and take it from there.

*note: I'm not being sarcastic

I think if the car isn't as competitive as they want shortly after the Mugello test, they will stop development & start on either 2013 or 2014.

[raymondu999]

Yep - looking at it from a business point of view that would probably be what I'd do

[lebesset]

This thread cracks me up. Ferrari is by far the most important team in F1, and make no mistake, they will be back. I'd put my money on it being before this season is up.

that's the whole point of such a strategy ;having the top car at seasons end and ignoring the fact that concentrating development on that will impinge on the results in the meantime

[dren]

Ferrari have struggled with aero lately. They had a good 2010 package. I think they would have been better of using an evolved 2011 chassis rather than go the route they did. But only time will tell. If they get this package working the way they expected it to, it will be a good contender to evolve for 2013.

[Pierce89]

This thread cracks me up. Ferrari is by far the most important team in F1, and make no mistake, they will be back. I'd put my money on it being before this season is up.

that's the whole point of such a strategy ;having the top car at seasons end and ignoring the fact that concentrating development on that will impinge on the results in the meantime

I understand the point of the thread. I was only making fun of all the people trumpeting Ferrari's impending doom.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Ferrari have struggled with aero lately. They had a good 2010 package. I think they would have been better of using an evolved 2011 chassis rather than go the route they did. But only time will tell. If they get this package working the way they expected it to, it will be a good contender to evolve for 2013.

I understand your thinking, but I agree with the thinking in Maranello that they had to try something inherently different to have a shot at leapfrogging Red Bull. It will be some time before we see if it paid off, roughly after Monza.
I think the 150 Italia was very bad & an evolution of it would have left us in the same position we were in last year. Peopl cite Silverstone as the car being so good because of the regs for that race, but it's much more complicated than that. The rain, & the fact we didn't have to use the hard tyres contributed massively to the win.

[CHT]

No team is better then the people who run it.
They need a genius in the form of Newey or Byrne if they want to dominate the sport once again.

Ferrari will be back. A look through history will tell you just that.
Question is when..

08 they were good, 09 was a loophole year, 10 was semi good but the RBR was in another dimension. 11 everyone was playing catch up with RBR just improving what already was superior.

Regulations need to stay the same in order for teams to catch up. IF things change all the time it will only be bad for the sport.

Look at Silverstone, no EBD and Ferrari was superior in the high speed corners.
Vettel was slower then Webber etc.

Having a good car on the grid is not going to be enough for a team that dominate the sports not too long ago. Ferrari needs to be the BEST to make a comeback. I dont think there is a lack of good personnel within the team, they just need the right leader to lead this team. IMO Stefano Domenicali should consider stepping aside as.

I actually believe the main problem Ferrari and other teams have with catching RBR is the lack of regulation change. To make a quantum leap in performance gain, resource rich teams need to discover that loophole and without regulation change it will be difficult.

[lebesset]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97958

sounds like they really are aiming at seasons end