Ferrari F2012

[Pierce89]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97958

No development on the exhaust until may at the earliest.

"Ferrari has said that a change of exhaust layout mid-way through testing was the main cause of its tough winter. Domenicali said a new version of the F2012's original exhaust would not be ready until the May test at Mugello.

"The process is long because we need to modify the bodywork," he said. "Our technicians need to understand how to intervene with the CFD, then analyse temperatures, prepare the parts and test them. We'll be able to do that only at Mugello testing in May."

Painfull and if they gonna copy red bulls concept, a huge embarrassment imo.

I wonder if Ferrari shouldnt just copy the entire Reb Bull car and take it from there. Newey seems to be a lot better in finding the gains in the curent rules.
No need to plodder for years in own concepts, if the end result is copying red bullsystems anyway. Just look at the rear pull rod suspension everybody thought would be on the Ferrari since 2010, but only got adapted on this f2012.

i remember that red bull's first exhaust solution was considered the best when we saw it first time.it was something that everyone should copy. and then 4 weeks later red bull showed new exhaust that was copy from another team exhaust systems. this set of rules doesn't leave you much space for manipulation.

The key words there are: Red Bull and new. This forum has turned into Newey love fest lately. On this forum,if Red Bull uses a solution then it's automatically optimized to be the best anything can possibly be in these regs and impossible to improve upon.... Until it changes.

I think the sidepods,exhaust and FW will be different come Melbourne.

[CHT]

Interesting observation. Maybe they did quickly copy the launch spec red bull concept when Ferrari figured out the acer ducts werent working, and then got caught pants down when red bull showed their actual concept last week.

red bull was caught with their pants down too at first test in jerez. their actual concept was really firefighting measure after the FIA cleared mlaren and ferrari exhaust after red bull protested it. you don't test actual concept last day of testing.

according to horner, the latest RB exhaust system was developed sometime after the new year and looking at how RBR package the entire system together, it is hard to believe that they actually could copy the exhaust system and make it the best on the grid.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

r you don't test actual concept last day of testing.[/quote]

Hmm, even you are right, then that would reflect even worse on Ferrari, since Red Bull apparently is able to do all that design, cfd, manufacturing of a new rear end in the space of 3 weeks while Ferrari just admitted theyll need at least 2 months to reasses their new exhaust plans.

But youre wrong in the end. Red Bull always maintained the final package would be revealed in the last test, as most other teams. Not only that, theyve done the same thing last year, with quite some succes.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97958

No development on the exhaust until may at the earliest.

"Ferrari has said that a change of exhaust layout mid-way through testing was the main cause of its tough winter. Domenicali said a new version of the F2012's original exhaust would not be ready until the May test at Mugello.

"The process is long because we need to modify the bodywork," he said. "Our technicians need to understand how to intervene with the CFD, then analyse temperatures, prepare the parts and test them. We'll be able to do that only at Mugello testing in May."

Painfull and if they gonna copy red bulls concept, a huge embarrassment imo.

I wonder if Ferrari shouldnt just copy the entire Reb Bull car and take it from there. Newey seems to be a lot better in finding the gains in the curent rules.
No need to plodder for years in own concepts, if the end result is copying red bullsystems anyway. Just look at the rear pull rod suspension everybody thought would be on the Ferrari since 2010, but only got adapted on this f2012.

i remember that red bull's first exhaust solution was considered the best when we saw it first time.it was something that everyone should copy. and then 4 weeks later red bull showed new exhaust that was copy from another team exhaust systems. this set of rules doesn't leave you much space for manipulation.

The key words there are: Red Bull and new. This forum has turned into Newey love fest lately. On this forum,if Red Bull uses a solution then it's automatically optimized to be the best anything can possibly be in these regs and impossible to improve upon.... Until it changes.

I think the sidepods,exhaust and FW will be different come Melbourne.

So Domenicali says there wont be new exhausts, sidepods until may, yet you insist there will be?

And its not so strange its become a Newey love fest when everybody copies whatever he designs, no? The latest iteration of the Ferrari front wing, is another copy of the Newey designed red bull front wing too.

Whether the rules are the cause, or Newey is just such a genius, or that its a sad state of affairs for such a big team as Ferrari is for another thread, the fact remains Ferrari, in the end, seems to adapt his concepts. A lot.

[radosav]

r you don't test actual concept last day of testing.

Hmm, even you are right, then that would reflect even worse on Ferrari, since Red Bull apparently is able to do all that design, cfd, manufacturing of a new rear end in the space of 3 weeks while Ferrari just admitted theyll need at least 2 months to reasses their new exhaust plans.

But youre wrong in the end. Red Bull always maintained the final package would be revealed in the last test, as most other teams. Not only that, theyve done the same thing last year, with quite some succes.[/quote]
red bull car is great basis for development and their last solution may work well, but i think they were caught on their wrong foot with exhaust this year cause it was huge change in exhaust position while last year was just evolution of exhaust.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

r you don't test actual concept last day of testing.

Hmm, even you are right, then that would reflect even worse on Ferrari, since Red Bull apparently is able to do all that design, cfd, manufacturing of a new rear end in the space of 3 weeks while Ferrari just admitted theyll need at least 2 months to reasses their new exhaust plans.

But youre wrong in the end. Red Bull always maintained the final package would be revealed in the last test, as most other teams. Not only that, theyve done the same thing last year, with quite some succes.

red bull car is great basis for development and their last solution may work well, but i think they were caught on their wrong foot with exhaust this year cause it was huge change in exhaust position while last year was just evolution of exhaust.[/quote]

Why do you think they were caught on the wrong foot when they announced already at the launch a different spec would appear in the last test?

And if youre right, how come Red Bull manages to design, cfd, manufacture all those new parts in just 3 weeks and Ferrari needs 2 months?

[radosav]

when red bull asked other teams for approval to bring new chassis to test it was sign that they redesigned it too much and that if they had it planed before they could just put it on older chassis. red bull is better than ferrari in design, cfd, manufacture all those new parts . that is why they had superior cars last 3 years .

[FakeAlonso]

Is a shame that Ferrari has to wait until Mugelo to complete the redesign of the exhaust. I think they need to invest a lot experts in aerodynamics .

[Spencifer_Murphy]

So Domenicali says there wont be new exhausts, sidepods until may, yet you insist there will be?

And its not so strange its become a Newey love fest when everybody copies whatever he designs, no? The latest iteration of the Ferrari front wing, is another copy of the Newey designed red bull front wing too.

Whether the rules are the cause, or Newey is just such a genius, or that its a sad state of affairs for such a big team as Ferrari is for another thread, the fact remains Ferrari, in the end, seems to adapt his concepts. A lot.

Well I think it would be wise to maintain an open mind. Just because Domenicali says something does not necessarily mean that it is true.

And while I agree that Adrian Newey is a fabulous designer (I'm a huge fan of his work) I would also agree that the "Newey love-fest" as it has been called does sometimes get a bit over the top (perhaps even fanboyish from some people). Newey designed the Mclaren's of 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003 and they all got beaten (decisively so in some cases) by the Byrne designed Ferrari's of those years. I mean I recall reading a post on the RB8 thread on the morning that Red Bull showed its "true" rear end concept (exhausts and sidepods) and before the cars had done any meaningful laps somebody had already proclaimed it to the the car which would win the constructors championship this year. The Sauber has a similar rear end treatment (maybe not quite so intricate) and yet very few people give it such recognition.

Everything the man does it treated like some sort of act of God sometimes. Yes he's brilliant, but he is still human.

As for the Ferrari I don't think it is in such a bad position - I think Ferrari just need a bit more time to understand how this car works for them. It's a massive change in direction for them. (Just my opinion of course)

[amouzouris]

i don't think that the team will need two months to redesign the car's sidepods....this year it was just 71 days between brazil and jerez test day 1...and teams design half the car in those days...there are 50 days from now to the test in mugello...they can redesign half the car not just sidepods...

[FakeAlonso]

i don't think that the team will need two months to redesign the car's sidepods....this year it was just 71 days between brazil and jerez test day 1...and teams design half the car in those days...there are 50 days from now to the test in mugello...they can redesign half the car not just sidepods...

Ferrari started the f2012 project since they lost the mathematical chance to win the championship last year. This means they need a lot of time to design and understand what they put into the car. Remember last year FM testing flexy front wing they could not get it to work properly. So I think Ferrari needs a lot of time to develop and maybe they are missing the old days when they tested freely in Fiorano.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

So Domenicali says there wont be new exhausts, sidepods until may, yet you insist there will be?

And its not so strange its become a Newey love fest when everybody copies whatever he designs, no? The latest iteration of the Ferrari front wing, is another copy of the Newey designed red bull front wing too.

Whether the rules are the cause, or Newey is just such a genius, or that its a sad state of affairs for such a big team as Ferrari is for another thread, the fact remains Ferrari, in the end, seems to adapt his concepts. A lot.

First let's not act like Red Bull isn't a big team themselves, and don't spend as much money each year as Ferrari, because they do.

In Mugello they will test the launch exhaust position again, is at least what I gather from the quotes. Not necessarily copy RB again. The team have maintained the original exhaust provided the most benefit, it was just unstable at times. I expect them to try that again.

[amouzouris]

i don't think that the team will need two months to redesign the car's sidepods....this year it was just 71 days between brazil and jerez test day 1...and teams design half the car in those days...there are 50 days from now to the test in mugello...they can redesign half the car not just sidepods...

Ferrari started the f2012 project since they lost the mathematical chance to win the championship last year. This means they need a lot of time to design and understand what they put into the car. Remember last year FM testing flexy front wing they could not get it to work properly. So I think Ferrari needs a lot of time to develop and maybe they are missing the old days when they tested freely in Fiorano.

yes i do know that they started development of f2012 early... but for teams who are fighting for a place...that being either at the front or at the back...they have half the car to design and finalize in winter...2 months is far too much time for a team, especially a team as big as ferrari, to redesign sidepod bodywork.

[FakeAlonso]

i don't think that the team will need two months to redesign the car's sidepods....this year it was just 71 days between brazil and jerez test day 1...and teams design half the car in those days...there are 50 days from now to the test in mugello...they can redesign half the car not just sidepods...

Ferrari started the f2012 project since they lost the mathematical chance to win the championship last year. This means they need a lot of time to design and understand what they put into the car. Remember last year FM testing flexy front wing they could not get it to work properly. So I think Ferrari needs a lot of time to develop and maybe they are missing the old days when they tested freely in Fiorano.

yes i do know that they started development of f2012 early... but for teams who are fighting for a place...that being either at the front or at the back...they have half the car to design and finalize in winter...2 months is far too much time for a team, especially a team as big as ferrari, to redesign sidepod bodywork.

If that's the case why cant they do what McLaren did last year and bring something ready for Melbourne? Domenicali says we are going to play in defense for the first 4 races. My opinion is that they are a bit slow to introduce or copy design and put them on the car. I think Mclaren and RB are faster introducing new designs.

[amouzouris]

Ferrari started the f2012 project since they lost the mathematical chance to win the championship last year. This means they need a lot of time to design and understand what they put into the car. Remember last year FM testing flexy front wing they could not get it to work properly. So I think Ferrari needs a lot of time to develop and maybe they are missing the old days when they tested freely in Fiorano.

yes i do know that they started development of f2012 early... but for teams who are fighting for a place...that being either at the front or at the back...they have half the car to design and finalize in winter...2 months is far too much time for a team, especially a team as big as ferrari, to redesign sidepod bodywork.

If that's the case why cant they do what McLaren did last year and bring something ready for Melbourne? Domenicali says we are going to play in defense for the first 4 races. My opinion is that they are a bit slow to introduce or copy design and put them on the car. I think Mclaren and RB are faster introducing new designs.

last year mclaren had reliability issues with their very complex exhaust system...copying the red bull exhaust was much easier...no need for change of bodywork was required...ferrari will need to understand it first and maybe change bodywork..i don't think it will be ready for Melbourne but i also don't think that it will need 2 months...that's far too long