Ferrari F2012

[Spencifer_Murphy]

If that's the case why cant they do what McLaren did last year and bring something ready for Melbourne? Domenicali says we are going to play in defense for the first 4 races. My opinion is that they are a bit slow to introduce or copy design and put them on the car. I think Mclaren and RB are faster introducing new designs.

I think the problem for Ferrari is that to design and make a new part to replace one which doesn't work can only happen when you understand why the existing part if not working.

Perhaps Ferrari do not yet fully understand why the sidepods are not working as expected, and are hoping they might find this out after the first race or two?

I don't know of course, but I'm just speculating.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

I think there are far more qualified people around here than me who can explain how much work it is to (re)design, windtunnel and cfd test, manufacture such a comprehensive and complex update as the one on the red bull car. Ferrari isnt slow, or needs better cfd equipment: they just looked at the wrong solutions and now need to dedicate the same amount of time red bull initially devoted on that new rear end.

Bad part is while Ferrari plays catch up, Newey has 2 months he can devote to refine even more and improve performance.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

...Or Newey has 2 months to refine a concept and potentially chose a wrong development while Ferrari come up with an ingenious new concept that blows the competition out of the water

...unlikely I know. But it would make for an interesting season if Ferrari had an awful start but a great finish to the season lol.

[FakeAlonso]

What is interesting is that RB is so confident that they bring a complete new SPEC to the last day of testing and despite their problems they confirmed they will run that SPEC in Melbourne and Ferrari still does not understand its exhausts??? I think that if they continue with this rate of development they won't be able to catch up red bull throughout the year.

[FakeAlonso]

...Or Newey has 2 months to refine a concept and potentially chose a wrong development while Ferrari come up with an ingenious new concept that blows the competition out of the water

...unlikely I know. But it would make for an interesting season if Ferrari had an awful start but a great finish to the season lol.

Exactly. Ferrari need to speed up their development otherwise this championship is lost fro the first race.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

...Or Newey has 2 months to refine a concept and potentially chose a wrong development while Ferrari come up with an ingenious new concept that blows the competition out of the water

...unlikely I know. But it would make for an interesting season if Ferrari had an awful start but a great finish to the season lol.

Youre an optimist.

""Exactly. Ferrari need to speed up their development otherwise this championship is lost fro the first race.

If after two huge restructuring operations, and last years reshuffle of its way of working, one week before the start of the season, Ferrari still needs to speed up their development it is in even deeper crisis than many think they are currently in.

[raymondu999]

What is interesting is that RB is so confident that they bring a complete new SPEC to the last day of testing and despite their problems they confirmed they will run that SPEC in Melbourne and Ferrari still does not understand its exhausts??? I think that if they continue with this rate of development they won't be able to catch up red bull throughout the year.

Don't forget Red Bull is working on a 3-year-old concept. This is a car they know inside out; and probably they know the way the CFD readout looks by heart too. Ferrari have got a LOT to learn about their car.

[Pierce89]

What is interesting is that RB is so confident that they bring a complete new SPEC to the last day of testing and despite their problems they confirmed they will run that SPEC in Melbourne and Ferrari still does not understand its exhausts??? I think that if they continue with this rate of development they won't be able to catch up red bull throughout the year.

Where did you get the idea that they don't understand their exhaust? They specifically said the launch exhaust had more ultimate performance but needs development(driveability probably), so they switched to less sensitive exhaust position.

Where does that imply a lack of understanding?Just sounds like empirical testing and development to me. Ferrari might lack a bit of creativity in interpreting the regs, but that makes no implication that they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Jimi Hendrix says:If after two huge restructuring operations, and last years reshuffle of its way of working, one week before the start of the season, Ferrari still needs to speed up their development it is in even deeper crisis than many think they are currently in.

Ferarri doesn't lack development pace. They've developed at roughly the same pace as Red Bull and Mclaren through a season for the last two years( actually I'd say a little better: By the end of 2010 they were close to the Bull and miles ahead of Macca. In 2011 they got closer to the two teams in fornt of them throughout the year.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

In 2011 they got closer to the two teams in fornt of them throughout the year.

Not on my tv mate Updates didnt work throughout the year - and that doesnt seem to have changed after the latest test updates on the exhaust also didnt work.

The rate of development doesnt seem to be the problem. The vision what to develop does.

[amouzouris]

Not on my tv mate Updates didnt work throughout the year - and that doesnt seem to have changed after the latest test updates on the exhaust also didnt work.

The rate of development doesnt seem to be the problem. The vision what to develop does.

excuse me what??? updates didn't work?? they brought that big update in silverstone and closed the gap MASSIVELY... they brought the new front wing later and that work right from the start again...the only updates that didn't work were those for belgium..that i admit was a setback... but you cant say that updates didnt work throughout the year...that's just not true...

[raymondu999]

they brought that big update in silverstone and closed the gap MASSIVELY...

It helped a bit. The rest of the gap came from the other teams losing through the banning of the off throttle maps

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

That front wing didnt work from the start either. Forgot about the Indian gp front wing wiggling? Besides, that wasnt a product from development, that was a straight copy of the red bull front wing concept. The melbourne spec didnt work. Silverstone only worked because of engine map ban and at the last race Alonso finished 35 seconds behind winner Webber and qualified throughout the year - bar a few exceptions - a steady half a second behind mclaren and red bull. Thats not closed up at all.

[amouzouris]

they brought that big update in silverstone and closed the gap MASSIVELY...

It helped a bit. The rest of the gap came from the other teams losing through the banning of the off throttle maps

i agree that at silverstone they were also helped by the off-throttle blowing ban...but if u look at the next race..which was Germany...the gap was still very small..not as small as silverstone but certainly smaller than it was before the updates..

[amouzouris]

That front wing didnt work from the start either. Forgot about the Indian gp front wing wiggling? Besides, that wasnt a product from development, that was a straight copy of the red bull front wing concept. The melbourne spec didnt work. Silverstone only worked because of engine map ban and at the last race Alonso finished 35 seconds behind winner Webber and qualified throughout the year - bar a few exceptions - a steady half a second behind mclaren and red bull. Thats not closed up at all.

ummm..why was the front wing 'wiggling' as you call it only on massa's car? why not on alonso's? ferrari was obviously trying to get flexi wings banned...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

The problem with building completely new sidepods and fitting them for a GP is not the problem. The problem would be drawing them up, running CFD to see if it's even viable, making the 60% mold to test in the tunnel, then making the new full scale, then getting them onto the car to test their efficiency, cooling, performance & making a decision about whether or not to move forward. Then depending on how things went, the team might find themselves a set for only one car.
To make such radical changes and not have the time to check them out under a testing setting would be risky. Which is why the team will wait until Mugello for any major changes. I believe we'll see some new parts before then, but nothing major because you don't want to test their performance or lack thereof during a GP weekend. There's too much other stuff to work on.
As for actual build time, a team can make a brand new front wing in 48 hours. From mold to autoclave, to assembly, to paint to decals. Sidepods are roughly a week. Again that's not the problem.