Red Bull RB8 Renault

[forty-two]

I read it could be use for both driver and suspension cooling. As for channeling the air somewhere else for aero purpose, I am doubtful because incoming air will lose a great deal of velocity the moment it hit the wire mesh.

Granted, the wire mesh might have an impact, but it didn't stop any team from putting mesh over their brake cooling inlets did it?

[GrizzleBoy]

Could the opening on top of the side pods be the exit for the slit on the nose? Maybe to improve airflow?

So, can we finally stop this whole "RB are putting the exhaust gases down the (out)side of the bridge at low speeds" thing now?

The majority of the exhaust is clearly not going there.

No. BEcause.. that is how the exhausts behave at high speed. Remember, the car is not only driving at one speed, but varying speeds at different points in time.

That is exactly how the exhaust behaves in my Coanda effect simulations when I set the car speed to 200mph. The momentum of the oncoming air turns to be the dominant effect. BUT the exhaust STILL goes down to the diffuser at lower speeds. I wish I could show you a picture of the simulation results at 200mph but I am at work now.

My argument is not that the gases do not go there, but that they do go there, just not in the "focused" manner that was being proposed before where people were saying the gases would drop down the side of rear sidepod area and then travel towards the inside of the wheel.

If that were the case, then we would see markings to reflect the gases "dropping" down to the floor of the car, but that's not what they show.

Even if you look closely, you can actually see two "candle flame" shapes eminating from the exhaust, with one tip horizontal/higher up and the other tip lower down that may indeed indicate different exhaust movement due to speed.

However, I never argued that the exhaust gases are not affected by speed, but the manner people were proposing they were affected.

This is what Adrian Newby agreed was the proposed method, note the exhaust simply dropping down to the side of the bridge/rear sidepod/floor.



I took issue with how he supposed the exhaust gases would just drop like that and proposed that it would be much less focused and be much simpler in terms of "direction". I proposed this image:



The purple lines I added were to show exterior air flows around the car that would have influence on where the exhaust gases would go and said that the gases would more than likely end up going along the corner and back/top of the bridge, just as the most recent pictures show.

Therefore I am the winner and as such, should receive all of the cookies.

*wears medal*

/Charlie Sheen.

[hardingfv32]

Delete

Brian

[CHT]

I read it could be use for both driver and suspension cooling. As for channeling the air somewhere else for aero purpose, I am doubtful because incoming air will lose a great deal of velocity the moment it hit the wire mesh.

Granted, the wire mesh might have an impact, but it didn't stop any team from putting mesh over their brake cooling inlets did it?

they serve the same purpose. instead of cooling the brake the mail slot is cooling the driver

[Crucial_Xtreme]

My argument is not that the gases do not go there, but that they do go there, just not in the "focused" manner that was being proposed before where people were saying the gases would drop down the side of rear sidepod area and then travel towards the inside of the wheel.

If that were the case, then we would see markings to reflect the gases "dropping" down to the floor of the car, but that's not what they show.

Even if you look closely, you can actually see two "candle flame" shapes eminating from the exhaust, with one tip horizontal/higher up and the other tip lower down that may indeed indicate different exhaust movement due to speed.

However, I never argued that the exhaust gases are not affected by speed, but the manner people were proposing they were affected.

This is what Adrian Newby agreed was the proposed method, note the exhaust simply dropping down to the side of the bridge/rear sidepod/floor.



I took issue with how he supposed the exhaust gases would just drop like that and proposed that it would be much less focused and be much simpler in terms of "direction". I proposed this image:


The purple lines I added were to show exterior air flows around the car that would have influence on where the exhaust gases would go and said that the gases would more than likely end up going along the corner and back/top of the bridge, just as the most recent pictures show.

Therefore I am the winner and as such, should receive all of the cookies.

*wears medal*

/Charlie Sheen.

It's not fair to compare the two pictures in your post. because they are different. The bottom picture is the old configuration and the top is the new tweaked version.

To me, the tip of the exhaust is inline with the bridge that slopes towards the floor. Meaning that is the main direction the exhaust is taking.

[hardingfv32]

No. BEcause.. that is how the exhausts behave at high speed. Remember, the car is not only driving at one speed, but varying speeds at different points in time.

The average lap was about 215 KPH in the dry. Would you say that the exhaust 'look' represents what is happening at say 215 KPH? I am not sure how much time this car was on the track in damp conditions.

I don't know why this would not represent the flow at 215 KPH. So if you guys think the flow can be shifted then we have the question of what speed to tune the exhaust outlet flow for?

Brian

[Adrian Newby]

This is what I said the flow looked like when I attempted to actually draw it myself:

The different colors don't mean anything, they are just there to show how the exhaust spirals. The vortex portion is not meant to be to scale, only to demonstrate the idea. The blue side of the flow will also probably expand more than shown.

[Adrian Newby]

(deleted since it was repeated in its entirety by Grizzleboy below)

[strad]

I'm tellin ya, I think it has a lot to do with "Inner Flow". Controlling the air around and over the car is all fine and well, but you must also control the air flowing thru the car,,what I saw today makes me think so more than ever and also that it dumps low out the back to join the flow that is in my opinion sealing the sides of the diffuser. I've been saying this and I've seen nothing to dissuade me.

[GrizzleBoy]

This was the best drawing available of the same basic idea before I drew my own (the red line would be almost straight if looked at from above):





And this:



is not even close.

No cookie!

1.
I can show you the quote where you agree that the first pic is what is happening.

2.
Both the path of "burn marks" on the corner of the bridge and the side of the car are in the new pics are closer to my theory than yours that stated that the gases would just "go down" to the inside of the wheel.

My drawing of the exhaust gases are much more accurate when compared to the actual evidence we have when looking at the car.

The upper purple line that demonstrates external airflows affecting the exhaust gases even aligns with the lower extremities of the burn markings in the recent pics.

If your theory was correct, the visible burn markings would extend lower beyond that line, but they do not.

There's no point typing "this is wrong", when it clearly is much closer to reality than what you agreed was happening.

[Adrian Newby]

1.
Where did I say I disagree with the first picture? It's a heck of a lot better than the one you posted. And it was the best available at the time, without drawing my own (which I did later, and showed above).

2.
See my post below for numerous reasons why the "burn marks" are atrociously unreliable indicators.

[Adrian Newby]

So, can we finally stop this whole "RB are putting the exhaust gases down the (out)side of the bridge at low speeds" thing now?

The majority of the exhaust is clearly not going there.

Nope, sorry! That would be too easy.

1) The center of those exhaust markings points straight down the corner of the bridge (where the bridge is catching the light).

2) The exhaust markings would be for the full range of velocities, not just slow or fast.

3) There is a bulge in the bodywork just below the "R" in Renault that the inside portion of the exhaust is running into, thereby exaggerating the markings on that side.

4) In contrast, the bodywork on the outside falls away from the exhaust, understating the exhaust on the outside. If there was as much bodywork on the outside of the exhaust, you would see as much or more marking as you see on the inside. To make the point, there is no bodywork over the top of the exhaust, but we certainly can't say that means there is no flow there.

5) Find a photo of this from above and this all becomes more clear. The sidepod/bridge are waisting in toward the center of the car, and your mind just naturally wants to make everything else parallel with that. But in reality, and when seen from above, which is the proper angle to judge in/out angles, the exhaust is flowing over the corner of the bridge, just aft of the intake for the tunnel.

And here's a bonus picture, from the top, showing how the flow is designed and encouraged to go "over the side", which is actually more straight back:

[Coefficient]

Sure looks like it. Or still trying to catch up on their aero testing after Seb's off in Barcelona, maybe.

I'll bet they hated to see the rain more than all the other major teams (except maybe Ferrari).

Yeah, and what was interesting was they did one side of the car at a time. Flo-vis on left, run come in. Go back out with flo-vis on the right. People are talking about the MP4-27, and yes it looks good, but so does the RB8.

Interesting tweaks as well to the exhaust. They have a massively awesome CFD department. It just shows what happens when you embrace new technology before others.

Yes, and Newey's brain is the server. Notice the firewire port behind his left ear, and yes before you ask he only needs 1!!

[Crucial_Xtreme]

1.
Where did I say I disagree with the first picture? It's a heck of a lot better than the one you posted. And it was the best available at the time, without drawing my own (which I did later, and showed above).

2.
See my post below for numerous reasons why the "burn marks" are atrociously unreliable indicators.

This.

And the fact that the entire setup has been changed, and the bridge modified to help better direct the flow. We shall get better pictures today.

@coefficient I agree mate )

[forty-two]

I read it could be use for both driver and suspension cooling. As for channeling the air somewhere else for aero purpose, I am doubtful because incoming air will lose a great deal of velocity the moment it hit the wire mesh.

Granted, the wire mesh might have an impact, but it didn't stop any team from putting mesh over their brake cooling inlets did it?

they serve the same purpose. instead of cooling the brake the mail slot is cooling the driver

I take your point, but I don't believe that it's ONLY there for driver cooling.

Think about it, in a wet race, the tub would fill up with water in short order. That is there for some other purpose IMHO.