Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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928S
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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djos wrote:
myurr wrote:Webber 7/10ths off Hamilton on his only quick lap. I reckon Lewis may just have this but Mercedes are going to get close. Vettel is going to be 5th at best I reckon.
No KERS thru qually for Mark at all! RBR really shouldn't still be having KERS issues FFS!

mark still beat Vettel tho which was nice! 8)
Yes it will be interesting to see if Webber can knock over Vettel and perhaps get on the podium, as KERS would have definitely moved him up the grid. He is liking the RB8 more so than Vettel also. Maybe horses for courses in terms of car behavior?

ajdavison2
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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Just posted in the C31 thread aswell, Perez already taking a penalty for gearbox change.

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Echo
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Fair enough, Vettel was beaten by webber without KERS and Vettel was crying for being blocked. But you can´t honestly say Vettel is a midfield driver....

I dont care about one qualy but I think Vettel will adjust his driving without EBD and then he is going to..............
Rich teams should only be allowed to win

Goran2812
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then he is going to what? he'll probably cry for some other reason when and if he sorts his driving...
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Echo wrote:HAHAHAHAHA .... Which people said Lotus would be faster than Ferrari, Redbull, McLaren and Mercedes? You still don´t understand Lotus will never be top 4.
nice.

3/4 ain't bad

f1316
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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I'll preface this with "I know, I know, only one quali session, way too early to say anything"...but:

Vettel with the EBD RB reminds me of Andretti in the all conquering Lotus - unbeatable with all that downforce and then strangely off the pace when the regulations changed.

Just a silly little thought, because, frankly, I don't believe Vettel will be off the pace this season.

On another note, I don't think Alonso's performance was that far off the RB's, had he not crashed out. Over all, they're probably closer to pole than they were last year, but with a lot of other, more complex problems.

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Websta
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Fernando managed 1:24.974 in 2011 and I don't think that the gap to his fastest lap this year of 1:26.494 is down to the loss of the pretty ineffective EBD they ran last year. Who would have thought that a radical design change would be a bad idea?

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raymondu999
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A radical change was always going to be risky. I think what most people are saying is that the F150 should have been kept on - just sans the EBD. It seemed pretty good "without" it at Silvy last year
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clipsy1H
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i really don't know what happen with Grosjean.... i think he run behind Button or something. Lotus have a good car but not to top3.

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raymondu999 wrote:A radical change was always going to be risky. I think what most people are saying is that the F150 should have been kept on - just sans the EBD. It seemed pretty good "without" it at Silvy last year
It does look as though it would have been much better for Ferrari to develop the F150 rather than make radical changes. Is there a possibility for Ferrari to revert to a F150 tweaked to comply with the new rules?

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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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GrizzleBoy wrote:http://www.f1technical.net/news/17142

Looks like HRT are not allowed to race tomorrow :(

Hardly my favourite team, but it would be good to get the season under way with all cars on track ready to race.
They should force them to pack their bags and head home, it´s a complete joke of a team that should not be in F1 in the first place.

What is it now? 3 years and they still can´t build a car that isn´t considered slower then evolution.
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Websta wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:A radical change was always going to be risky. I think what most people are saying is that the F150 should have been kept on - just sans the EBD. It seemed pretty good "without" it at Silvy last year
It does look as though it would have been much better for Ferrari to develop the F150 rather than make radical changes. Is there a possibility for Ferrari to revert to a F150 tweaked to comply with the new rules?
It's a continually repeated fallacy to say that the cars ran without the EBD in Silverstone. They ran without off throttle blowing, but the exhausts were still in the same place and were still blowing the diffuser the moment the throttle was pressed.

The F150 was no more designed for not having a blown diffuser than any other car so wouldn't have necessarily made a better base. McLaren, for example, have changed their car quite radically from last year and look how that's worked out.

Ferrari's biggest problem is that they always seem to be surprised by what works and doesn't work on the car. They launched with a particular exhaust solution and have been moving it around and hacking at it ever since with no seeming direction to their changes. Again contrast to McLaren who launched with a concept, it broadly worked, they tweaked the exact angles a tiny bit but kept the overall position, and then they launched a refined version of it based on that fine tuning, and it all just worked.

I know this stuff is difficult and McLaren probably had at least a small element of luck, as demonstrated by Red Bull's exhaust struggles, but for the last few years Ferrari seem to have had almost no correlation between what their wind tunnel is telling them and what happens out on track. We're probably talking about a couple of percent difference, but in F1 that's an absolute gulf.

myurr
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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f1316 wrote:I'll preface this with "I know, I know, only one quali session, way too early to say anything"...but:

Vettel with the EBD RB reminds me of Andretti in the all conquering Lotus - unbeatable with all that downforce and then strangely off the pace when the regulations changed.

Just a silly little thought, because, frankly, I don't believe Vettel will be off the pace this season.

On another note, I don't think Alonso's performance was that far off the RB's, had he not crashed out. Over all, they're probably closer to pole than they were last year, but with a lot of other, more complex problems.
My personal thought is that Vettel *is* one of those drivers that needs the car to be to his liking in order to perform, and that when all is right he can be unbeatable. But there is persistent doubt about his ability to win by coming through the field with a battling drive, and I don't think we've seen him perform that well when the car doesn't suit his style 100%. In 2010 Webber had the upper hand even with the EBD until Red Bull started to adjust all the engine maps to make the car suit Vettel's style. Last year was just a case of everything falling into place for Vettel - the car was the class of the field, the EBD and throttle maps let him drive the car exactly how he wanted, and the tyres and balance perfectly matched his driving style.

This season I think we'll see a diminished Vettel. He'll have quick races but we'll see more highs and lows and car, conditions, and circumstance drift in and out of his comfort zone. So he'll still be in the mix over the course of a season but I think Webber has a real chance to beat him, especially in the races, and I think we'll see more mistakes from him this year as he has to push himself and his abilities far further than they were tested last year.

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ParanoiD
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Re: Australian GP 2012 - Albert Park

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myurr wrote:
Websta wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:A radical change was always going to be risky. I think what most people are saying is that the F150 should have been kept on - just sans the EBD. It seemed pretty good "without" it at Silvy last year
It does look as though it would have been much better for Ferrari to develop the F150 rather than make radical changes. Is there a possibility for Ferrari to revert to a F150 tweaked to comply with the new rules?
It's a continually repeated fallacy to say that the cars ran without the EBD in Silverstone. They ran without off throttle blowing, but the exhausts were still in the same place and were still blowing the diffuser the moment the throttle was pressed.

The F150 was no more designed for not having a blown diffuser than any other car so wouldn't have necessarily made a better base. McLaren, for example, have changed their car quite radically from last year and look how that's worked out.

Ferrari's biggest problem is that they always seem to be surprised by what works and doesn't work on the car. They launched with a particular exhaust solution and have been moving it around and hacking at it ever since with no seeming direction to their changes. Again contrast to McLaren who launched with a concept, it broadly worked, they tweaked the exact angles a tiny bit but kept the overall position, and then they launched a refined version of it based on that fine tuning, and it all just worked.

I know this stuff is difficult and McLaren probably had at least a small element of luck, as demonstrated by Red Bull's exhaust struggles, but for the last few years Ferrari seem to have had almost no correlation between what their wind tunnel is telling them and what happens out on track. We're probably talking about a couple of percent difference, but in F1 that's an absolute gulf.
Just wanted to add my opinion.

As we know, back then Ferrari have the luxury of unlimited testing and resources. I didnt know how many staff stayed since that era. But I think that their way of working might not suite the current era where testing is limited and you have to accurately developed a car (not just designing some parts and test it)

just my $0.02
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