McLaren is F1's biggest spender

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Tom
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I'm aware of the Williams Winfield relationship but now Sir Frank has managed to avoid them and keep a competitive team running for 7 years!

I just don't think such beautiful things as F1 cars and the people who make them should be associated with cigarettes. I honestly can't see your argument, F1 wouldn't be were it is today without the adds, I'm sure of it, but perhaps it would be better? Engineers would have been forced to think up ideas on the cheap adding an extra challenge, everyone got along fine before, you certainly didn't see any adverts on the side of Jimmy Clarks Lotus 25 which he won the 1963 championship in so why must we have them now?
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

pyry
pyry
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Tom wrote:I have now folled F1 for more than 1/2 my life (8 years) and I live in a house.
what does you living in a house have to do with anything?
four rings to rule them all

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Tom
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MIB wrote:
Do you live in a nutshell? for how many years have you followed F1?
I thought it might amuse a few people.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Lightspeed
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Could anybody give me details on the profit margins of F1 teams (if any) ?

Does the McLaren budget stated here include the Mercedes Engine department's spending as well ?

pyry
pyry
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tom, it does now that i read the preceding post :D
four rings to rule them all

West
West
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What's wrong with tobacco advertising? There's signs everywhere on tracks saying "smoking can cause cancer" and "smoking kills." There are published reports everywhere (even from the tobacco companies) stating that you will seriously affect your health when you smoke. They even try to help you quit (albeit after years of lawsuits and millions in fines). Yet if somebody is ignorant enough not to pay attention, and smoke a pack of West or Marlboro, it's their fault.

I would gladly put Marlboro on my car if they paid me millions. Hell they can paint my car Marlboro red. If people talk sh*t about it, I'll just drown out the sound by slapping that wad of cash in my hands. As for energy drinks... I slept late last night and woke up at 4 in the morning to go to work. A Red Bull kept me awake till now and I'm not even tired, even after hitting the gym.

In the end, health depends on the attitude of the person. If he or she remains ignorant about the effects of eating this or that or smoking or whatever, it's their fault. The problem with people is that instead of fixing problems they'd rather blame somebody.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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Lightspeed
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Imagine a sign saying "Dont drink and drive" in the Johnnie Walker ad on the McLaren :lol: :lol:

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Ciro Pabón
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Well, this thread got an interesting twist.

I am with Tom all the way here. "Energy" drinks? Right to smoke? Advertising on your clothes? And actually, "sports" cars for streets? Brainwashing.

I hope I understand him when he says he lives in a house. A good house: a home. I only hope he mantains his points of view all his life! Not many people I know can feel in his guts how wrong is to allow money to triumph over human thought. Spencifer_Murphy shows how indirect is the process that makes you forget your conscience...

I know you have the "right" to smoke, eat fake food, speed on the road and the such. I do not call them rights but weaknesses. Manchild, always to the bone, talks about what we can do when we have a "public appearance" chance.

I am not a rightneouss person. As Crabbia and West tell us, in the George Carlin inimitable style: take a f** chance! There is always humour around it, because there are ironies: to complement Lightspeed, some people says that the "Jhonnie Walker" ads is what makes lovely to see Raikkonen "keep walking" to the pits after the car blows! :lol:

But I am sure that Crabbia and West also recognize cleary that the degree of development this kind of things have is because some people make a living from exploiting our weaknesses. This is the problem.

I dare to express it this way, to make an analogy taking the argument to the extreme: what will you think of ads saying "I support the Kosovo war", "Sniff more of it!", or "Eat your daily dose of cholesterol"?

McLaren failures, unfortunately, won't last long as the sport was sold and bought many years ago. Once you sell your soul it is really hard to find the reverse. I thought most people understood that. Racing Maniac cleverly points out the difference and shows you an intelligent grouping of teams. It is all about what you do with your money.

Take this forum as a good example: where are the intrusive ads? Where is the betting? Apparently Tomba has not had the need nor the intentions to sell us, and he certainly could. He has given us a lot of his time "for free", investing on the future, building a community around a healthy aspect of a rising sport. He has chosen a sport unique to do this, a sport dominated by the endeavor for knowledge, the quest for safety (and efficiency, of course).

In the middle of an Internet that shows all facets of human spirit, I am sure he is glad he choose a "virtuous" aspect of it. This place could be called "Boobies Technical". Instead, it revolves around a smart "Princesa". :wink:

Dumrick points out the dark aspects of cars factories involved in this sport. I have explained elsewhere that cars kills 1.2 million people annually, compared to 1.6 million deaths by wars, suicide and homicide.

I only hope this attitude brings the reward it deserves and the pride that keep you away from such temptations that bring the "wad of cash". This is also a sport in danger because of the ever rising levels of money involved.

Maybe there is a middle of the road: F1Technical now have some (elegant) ad area. Some companies make a conscious effort to support "good ads", as Williams. You can make a living supporting things that are good for your fellow human beings. I only hope we all were that strong.
Ciro

Crabbia
Crabbia
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Maybe the F1 teams are selling their souls to keep ahead of the game by taking the tabaccy money. Take williams and chesterfield for example. They made the right and virtuous decision to stop accepting tobacco sponsorships before any one else. and look what happpened. they havent seemed challenging since. maybe the other teams saw this and viewed it as a cautionary tale. It is a bit of a strech but something to think about...

Another angle on this is that countries are banning smoking cause in the old days it was good money in the form of taxes for them, but now they've realised it'll cost them far more money at the end of the day funding national health schemes that must deal with an un-healthy smoking population.

I agree with ciro in some ways but all i was trying to imply is the concept of the duality of man and the right to ur own choice. Nuclear fusion can be used to power a town or blow one up, its our choice how we want to use it. And in terms of ur example Ciro, Tomba could have sold us out, hell, he could even had put porn pop-ups and banners all over the place. The fact is that he didnt, and not because he didn't know about it, (he must have been exposed to such crap on the internet, sadly its all but unavoidable), it's because he felt it wasnt right (and maybe cause he was worried about what principessa would do :wink: ). He was uninfluenced by external factors in making that desicion.

Where i agree with Ciro and i do recognise there is exploitation is that some people would not have the strength of character to make that decision, or the decision not to smoke, (even though thay are made fully aware of the dangers) and it is those people that this advertising exploits and foremost in this group I'd say would children that accompany thier fathers to the track or sit beside him on the sofa on track days.

I can understand Ciro's point of view on this cause he is a father and maybe one day if i do, God willing, become a father (at which time i WILL have given up smoking) in the future i would most likely adopt his stance to matters like these. But I'd also explain to my kid that if u do smoke there is no way u'd handle 4Gs around a corner for and hour and a half.

Another thing to think about is why the tobacco companies like motorsport so much and dont advertise things like marathons. Once that said the answer is obvious, cause u wouldn't be able to run a marathon smoking a pack a day.

But the real shrewed trick is in motorsport the physical exertion element is removed and shrouded in these super fast highly efficient macines and covered in thier messages. it works for them cause the man in the street doesnt see how the drivers are super fit, doesnt know their hearts would pack it in after the first pit stop if they had a quick fag before the start. All he sees are these ultra effecient cars... and who made it possible? The tobacco companies. It kinda suggests that the people that make this happen may be physically less able but they will still do the best job, make loads of money, be highly successful and drive fast red cars in their every day life, and do this all while getting their fix of nicoteine.
A wise man once told me you cant polish a turd...

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Scuderia_Russ
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Alot of good points being made in this thread, but re: booze vs fags debate, you never hear about anyone smoking ten fags and then plowing into a bus queue do you. BTW, no I don't smoke.
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

dumrick
dumrick
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Ciro Pabón wrote:what will you think of ads saying "Eat your daily dose of cholesterol"?
Is not rather "I'm loving it"? :D

West
West
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I used to smoke. And no it wasn't due to F1. I will admit however that rummaging through old videos, I did try to smoke all kinds of cigs advertised.

However, I quit a year ago and haven't had the urge to smoke since then. My quality of life is much better. The main reasons I quit was that I got caught by my parents which drove health insurance up, and another was that it hurt my gym routine. Also I figured I never understood why I smoked so long since I didn't feel like I was getting anything out of it.

Again, it's up to the individual to make his health decisions. It's just that America is 50% overweight, so they're not really doing anything. Over here there have been lawsuits against Mickey Ds and such, but sh*t people think they HAVE to eat there.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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Tom
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West wrote:
As for energy drinks... I slept late last night and woke up at 4 in the morning to go to work. A Red Bull kept me awake till now and I'm not even tired, even after hitting the gym.
Thats lies and well you know it. I'm gonna be blunt because I feel I might have spent too much time on this forum feining poitness and because i feel strongly about this issue.

The reason you are not tired is because you went to the gym. Energy drinks are very ill named because they have the effect of giving you a small lift which only plunges you down deeper an hour or so later. You want to be awake? I go for a run before school, take the dog out. Thats what wakes you up, keeps you trim. I'm pleased you go to the gym and have stopped smoking. Keep it up!

My twin sister smokes in secret because it gets her attention from the wrong sort of people, I can't stop her, my parents refuse to believe she could ever do anything wrong so she keeps on, and you can tell. she used to be able to give me a run for money at any sport, now she can't, shes spotty and unfit and no amount of ani-tobbaco campaigning is going to stop her!

I'm not having a go at just you West, but anyone who continues to be deluded by this --- and the large amount of cash it brings in. Apple juice is a far better energy drink than red bull and it costs less, there is no substitute for smoking, anyone whos in that hole must try very hard to claw their way out but West proves it can be done. Good luck guys, take care!

Crabbia wrote:
Take williams and chesterfield for example. They made the right and virtuous decision to stop accepting tobacco sponsorships before any one else. and look what happpened. they havent seemed challenging since. maybe the other teams saw this and viewed it as a cautionary tale.
Williams were in the --- the moment they loost the Renault power despite keeping the Winfeild logo for a year.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

West
West
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Here, let me write it this way. I slept around 12 and woke up at 4 in the morning the next day. Got to work at 6 and was feeling super drowsy till about 10 am. DRank a Red Bull and ate an apple, and suddenly I'm not so tired anymore. Ate lunch, finished work and went to the gym around 4 and worked out for an hour. Luckily it was Friday, so I can do whatever the f*ck I want; ended up sleeping at 3 am.

By this I conclude that the Red Bull played a major part in me being more alert. If not for the whole day, it got me through work at least.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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Scuderia_Russ
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Tom wrote: shes spotty and unfit and no amount of ani-tobbaco campaigning is going to stop her!
Smoking will not give you spots, and I know super fit lads in the Royal Marines that smoke twenty a day. Sounds like she's just getting lazy as she gets older. (BTW, I hope she doesn't read this forum for your sake Tom :lol: )
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-