Team: Adrian Newey (CTO), Petr Prodromou (CA), Rob Marshall (CD), Christian Horner (TP) Drivers: Sebastian Vettel (1), Mark Webber (2), Sebastian Buemi (reserve)
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
marcush. wrote:clerly RB is holding on to the new concept as there is a benefit to it .If the old package was quicker you would see it on the car in Melbourne methinks.Or do you think Newey is stubborn ?
I would really like to see how the race turn out tomorrow. With DRS, having the quicker car on sat might not necessary mean you will win on Sunday.
It didn't do RB any harm being at front in previous seasons.
Should a very interesting race. Tyre strategy will also be keeping an eye on as everyone still has plenty of learning to do with the new rubber. Can't wait.
Listen to the sound of engine. Its not making the same sound that we heard all through winter testing !!!
Can others listen and confirm? If it is true, then my suspicion is right.
Definitely sounds different to me. During those testing videos as soon as the driver lifted off the throttle you could hear that rasping noise of the off throttle blowing kicking in. You don't hear that at all on that video, it sounds like the rest of the cars.
Listen to the sound of engine. Its not making the same sound that we heard all through winter testing !!!
Can others listen and confirm? If it is true, then my suspicion is right.
Definitely sounds different to me. During those testing videos as soon as the driver lifted off the throttle you could hear that rasping noise of the off throttle blowing kicking in. You don't hear that at all on that video, it sounds like the rest of the cars.
The drivers head and the mic are directly ahead of the intake, so all you hear is the intake side of the engine mostly. The top camera has a mic that can pick up exhaust and intake sound.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
prince wrote:I remember when an updated RB8 was revealed on the last day of Barcelona test, RB fans were screaming that WDC and WCC are in pocket. I told at that time that if it is for looks, then take it. Now, forget about WDC and WCC, it appears that RB is just 4th fastest team.
Where are those GENIUS illustrations that people were drawing of exhaust behaviour. Does it mean, all those MASTERS and TALENTS on these forum have been completely bluffed by RB? Good luck guys for the rest of season and keep those illustrations continuing. Nice art work, even if they are not relevant with practical performance. =D>
Now that everyone has pulled down their pants, Vettel could now see who has got what.
We GENIUSES have always argued where the exhaust was intended to go, and said that the amount of downforce it developed was a matter of how well it got there, and how efficient it was at sealing. If it is now claimed that the RB8 didn't qualify well because the exhaust was ineffective at blowing the diffuser, that just proves our point that that was indeed the intent. So, on behalf of my fellow GENIUSES, I thank you!
As for myself, I predicted, and stated on this forum that Red Bull would pay a higher price than the others if the EBD didn't work as well as they had hoped, because they have built so much of their car around it.
The upside for Red Bull... is that they have upside. They have something they can work with and keep developing throughout the season.
prince wrote:I remember when an updated RB8 was revealed on the last day of Barcelona test, RB fans were screaming that WDC and WCC are in pocket. I told at that time that if it is for looks, then take it. Now, forget about WDC and WCC, it appears that RB is just 4th fastest team.
Where are those GENIUS illustrations that people were drawing of exhaust behaviour. Does it mean, all those MASTERS and TALENTS on these forum have been completely bluffed by RB? Good luck guys for the rest of season and keep those illustrations continuing. Nice art work, even if they are not relevant with practical performance. =D>
Now that everyone has pulled down their pants, Vettel could now see who has got what.
We GENIUSES have always argued where the exhaust was intended to go, and said that the amount of downforce it developed was a matter of how well it got there, and how efficient it was at sealing. If it is now claimed that the RB8 didn't qualify well because the exhaust was ineffective at blowing the diffuser, that just proves our point that that was indeed the intent. So, on behalf of my fellow GENIUSES, I thank you!
As for myself, I predicted, and stated on this forum that Red Bull would pay a higher price than the others if the EBD didn't work as well as they had hoped, because they have built so much of their car around it.
The upside for Red Bull... is that they have upside. They have something they can work with and keep developing throughout the season.
There was no intention to berate all of the brilliant minds on these forums. A newbee like me doesn't deserve to comment about those.
Just to clarify, there are some, who, just out of blind love to RB, started putting content here which was just misleading.
marcush. wrote:clerly RB is holding on to the new concept as there is a benefit to it .If the old package was quicker you would see it on the car in Melbourne methinks.Or do you think Newey is stubborn ?
I would really like to see how the race turn out tomorrow. With DRS, having the quicker car on sat might not necessary mean you will win on Sunday.
It didn't do RB any harm being at front in previous seasons.
Should a very interesting race. Tyre strategy will also be keeping an eye on as everyone still has plenty of learning to do with the new rubber. Can't wait.
problem with last year is they are always in front hardly have the chance to use their DRS.
Listen to the sound of engine. Its not making the same sound that we heard all through winter testing !!!
Can others listen and confirm? If it is true, then my suspicion is right.
Definitely sounds different to me. During those testing videos as soon as the driver lifted off the throttle you could hear that rasping noise of the off throttle blowing kicking in. You don't hear that at all on that video, it sounds like the rest of the cars.
The drivers head and the mic are directly ahead of the intake, so all you hear is the intake side of the engine mostly. The top camera has a mic that can pick up exhaust and intake sound.
OK. So here is Sebastian's onboard lap from the top camera. Neither do I hear the sound that we heard in Barcelona.
Merc engineers found out the ECU loop hole quite some time back (maybe last year itself). So does Red Bull. I feel, Merc probably would have got to know that RB is pursuing the loop hole (remember Renault's Engineering director's comments regarding, "way around exhaust regulations").
Merc made a decision to report it to FIA and NOT pursue the loophole, BUT DELIBERATELY DELAYED REPORTING TO FIA. This way Merc allowed RB to pursue their RB8 in the direction of loophole. RB thought it would be a game changer and designed their car in that direction. Merc waited till last possible moment, ie., Barcelona testing, to report this to FIA. FIA duely closed the loop hole and RB found themselves in a big soup.
Remember last year when FIA wanted to clamp down exhaust blowing, the reasons RB gave to stop clamping down was, 1. It would cause engine to get unrealiable and it is must to allow exhaust blowing. 2. Renault engine is economic when it comes to fuel consumption. The FIA, then deferred the decision for 2012.
What are the reasons Merc gave to FIA when they brought the loop hole out. 1. Using the loop hole would cause engine overheating and would make it unstable 2. Fuel consumption to be very high.
If you look at the Barcelona testing, RB8 was beautifully planted and had a fantastic rear grip. Suddenly in Melbourne, the rear is throwing around (you can see Vettel's laps to confirm this). I also feel that RB's decision to change the exhaust layout on the penultimate day of Barcelona, could be a measure of desperation from RB. IT WAS NOT REALLY A PLANNED UPDATE. They had reliability issues and could not run their new configuration. Their original exhaust was probably in-line with the loophole and when the loophole was closed, that layout now does not yield any benefit. Against the expectaions of all the experts, RB did brought their new exhaust layout to Melbourne, which confirms to me that, my assumptions are right.
Watch the video links that I have provided earlier to observe the lack of blowing sound, that we heard in Barcelona.
If you look at statements coming out from RB camp, shows that they have been struck in the heart of their design. Vettel says, he did not expected to be on pole. Rings some bells?
When compared with the McLaren, it looks like that the RB design is lacking bodywork that really carves out a low pressure area to help get the exhaust moving in the desired direction. The modification they brought to Melbourne appears to be a move in this direction, but probably due to the shape of their sidepods the exhaust is still being dragged just a bit too far inside most of the time. They would really need quite an ugly (both visually and aerodynamically) protrusion from their sidepods to produce the effect I envision the McLaren design having. It may be possible to get it working in some other way, I guess time will tell, but it may be wise to start looking at other ways of utilising the exhaust.
For me, the RB sidepod design has been the class of the field in recent years but it doesn't seem to fit well with this exhaust concept. Now that we have good evidence that the current design is not yielding the desired results they need to decide quickly whether they're going to continue trying to make the two work together or which one they're going to let go.
I told at that time that if it is for looks, then take it. Now, forget about WDC and WCC, it appears that RB is just 4th fastest team.
