Importance of speed at corner entry

[Nando]

I cant believe you havent seen any understeer from the ferrari, Id go as far as saying every car in qualifying (all 24 of them) would have experienced understeer today in qualifying at some point. Ferrari certainly more than Mclaren, Mercedes, Lotus & Red Bull.

I´ve seen people enter corners way too fast but not really understeer.
(from the Ferrari atleast)

Unless of course that classifies as understeer but then i´ll refer to my Mclaren comment.

[GrizzleBoy]

I cant believe you havent seen any understeer from the ferrari, Id go as far as saying every car in qualifying (all 24 of them) would have experienced understeer today in qualifying at some point. Ferrari certainly more than Mclaren, Mercedes, Lotus & Red Bull.

I´ve seen people enter corners way too fast but not really understeer.
(from the Ferrari atleast)

Unless of course that classifies as understeer but then i´ll refer to my Mclaren comment.

There is a video on the Sky website for subscribers that does a side by side Alonso/Button onboard lap.

In most cases, Alonsos steering angle is much sharper than Buttons, who is already releasing his steering lock to exit the corner while Alonso is still trying to get the car to turn into the corner.

[Marc.W]

I´ve seen people enter corners way too fast but not really understeer.

You do realise that if a car is going too fast when the wheel is turned the car won't turn, guess what that is.......Understeer!!

[NathanOlder]

[Nando]

I´ve seen people enter corners way too fast but not really understeer.

You do realise that if a car is going too fast when the wheel is turned the car won't turn, guess what that is.......Understeer!!

So if Alonso takes a hairpin at 300km/h, is the car understeery then or is he simply coming in way to fast into the corner?

[FakeAlonso]

BBC's Gary Anderson on what's technically wrong with the F2012

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPOhyN1tIJ8[/youtube]

you bit me to this one.

DO you agree with DC on lack of mechanical grip?

[Nando]

BBC's Gary Anderson on what's technically wrong with the F2012

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPOhyN1tIJ8[/youtube]

Look at Massa´s short clip there. Anyone noticed any understeer from the car?

T1 the car turned in so crisp and so quick from my view at least.

T2 he missed is braking spot, rest of the corners he hit pretty much every single apex.

What i did see was him fighting the car on exits.

[NathanOlder]

Turn 1 it takes Massa 2 hacks to get the nose turned in, then in turn 3 misses the appex by a mile due to the nose not turning in a.k.a understeer

[Marc.W]

I´ve seen people enter corners way too fast but not really understeer.

You do realise that if a car is going too fast when the wheel is turned the car won't turn, guess what that is.......Understeer!!

So if Alonso takes a hairpin at 300km/h, is the car understeery then or is he simply coming in way to fast into the corner?

Both, I know what you are trying to explain, but you have to understand that understeer is relative to speed in most cases, if the McLaren and Ferrari both enter a corner at the same speed and the F2012 understeers then the F2012 then has to take that same corner slower in order to combat the understeer

[NathanOlder]

@ Nando
I dont know why im even arguing. If the car turns in crisp, and is as good as you say, why is it Massa is 2.5 SECONDS off the pace ?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

you bit me to this one.

DO you agree with DC on lack of mechanical grip?

Not really no. I think the main problem is the complete lack of downforce. It is the lack of downforce that exacerbates how the car handles/lack of grip.

What I'm saying is, I don't think the team has found the right setup. Forgetting about the front suspension for a minute, the pull rod rear is completely different than last year and will take some getting used to. It did for other teams when they switched, I don't think Ferrari is any different.
I think the front isn't doing them any favors because you lose some tweaking ability going with the pull rod, but I think if the car had the downforce levels of the McLaren we wouldn't be speaking about the pull rod suspension or the lack of grip.

[Nando]

Turn 1 it takes Massa 2 hacks to get the nose turned in, then in turn 3 misses the appex by a mile due to the nose not turning in a.k.a understeer

He turns in, notices that he turned in too much, let´s go then turns in again to clear much of the curbs on the inside.

T3 he misses his braking spot,

Compare to Hamilton, T3.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMElnY630oY[/youtube]

Hamilton looks to be braking before the Blue flag screen. Massa appears to be braking way after the screen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPOhyN1t ... r_embedded#![/youtube]

[Nando]

@ Nando
I dont know why im even arguing. If the car turns in crisp, and is as good as you say, why is it Massa is 2.5 SECONDS off the pace ?

Can´t put the power down. As can be seen NUMEROUS times.

Between T3-T4 he´s spinning the wheels, out of T1 he´s on opposite lock and have to use every single little piece of tarmac so even make the turn at that speed.

Compare to Hamilton and you´ll see the car suffers from oversteer, not really any understeer.

[Nando]

Both, I know what you are trying to explain, but you have to understand that understeer is relative to speed in most cases, if the McLaren and Ferrari both enter a corner at the same speed and the F2012 understeers then the F2012 then has to take that same corner slower in order to combat the understeer

Yes i understand, that is however what i can´t see.

From my point of view, if we compare to Hamilton´s T1-T2-T3 you will see that turn in for T1 is actually pretty good.

So good that he backs of the steering in order to not cut the corner.
He then gets on it again at the very apex in order to clear the curbs on the left hand side. Or atleast so much to not loose time.

Out of T2 we see Massa on opposite lock, using all of the road.
Hamilton uses less but has no opposite lock.

T3 Hamilton brakes much earlier then Massa.
Hamilton clears the corner, Massa does not.

= Turn in seems ok, traction out of corners does not.

It´s not how fast you enter a corner but how fast you get out of it.

No traction = bad time.

[Nando]

And i´ll rest my case regarding the Ferrari on Melbourne track on low fuel.