Ferrari F2012

[Vanja #66]

Greetings everyone, big Tifosi here... (Poseban pozdrav za sve zemljake i ostale Balkance ) Hope I'll be able to be a part of some great discussions, not uncommon here.

My thoughts of F2012 are that its true potential will be revealed only next year, but until then, I belive that team will get themselves in a position to challenge for victories, and hopefuly Drivers championship (cause with Massa after 2009, WCC is unfortunately lost even before the season began). Car obviously has many faults right now, all of which have already been mentined here, I dont see the point of repeating them. However, with big updates coming, I think they (or at least Nando) will be ready to challenge for podium come Barcelona GP... My optimism lies in Fry and McLaren's 2009. season (as far as I understand it took them a lot of time to figure out in which direction to go, but when they found it and clearly saw the problems and solutions, they reacted quickly and efficiently, correct me if I'm wrong, please). I really dont think that evolution of 150 Italia would have brought the pace required to win races, their form at the start would have been better, but I doubt that that specific F2012 would have had a bright future...

As for pull-rod front, I don't see a reason, nor text that it was a bad idea...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I hope that those "best" performance are enough to catch other top team.

For the exhaust i think that Ferrari setup need to calculate interaction between air speed, air angle while cornering and exhaust speed and volume (like other team) PLUS hot air form side pod.

They are behind other top team in CFD plus their setup has more variables to compute... is that a good idea ?

Well I think if the team can get the exhaust right and recover some DF, the car can win. Will it be absolutely equal to RB & MaCa? Who knows. but Fernando has shown he can win without having the best car. Although I will say I think there's a lot of potential in the F2012 and Ferrari are sparing no resource in finding it.

As for the exhaust and making it work,I don't know honestly. We all know it's impossible to replicate exhaust accurately in the tunnel. So it falls mostly on CFD and as you said that's something the team is behind our rivals on. Fry said during the winter they're upgrading the CFD facilities but it takes time and takes experience.

I think the show of consistency during the race on heavy fuel(compensating for lack of DF) shows when they get some of lost DF recovered, the car will be fast. But it's a waiting game.


@Vanja #66 Welcome mate! I honestly think the WCC is out of reach unless the Massa from '08 suddenly shows up. If the team can recover, finish the season strong and carry momentum into the offseason, 2013 certainly looks bright.

[Vanja #66]

@Vanja #66 Welcome mate! I honestly think the WCC is out of reach unless the Massa from '08 suddenly shows up. If the team can recover, finish the season strong and carry momentum into the offseason, 2013 certainly looks bright.

Thx!

My thoughts exactly on next season, if Alonso, for examples, wins 3-4 of last 8 GPs, and Perez comes to Scuderia (I have a strong fealing its allready a done deal) next year, 2013. could see a mighty comeback... It wont be easy, and thus would make it an even greater succes.

Back to F2012, are there any indications that team is thinkig of refining its nose and the bump a bit? Looks to me like the extra air higher noses bring doesnt compensate the drag and other aero effects of those bumps... Look at MP4-27 and MR01, only ones with straight noses, first one is curently the best car, the other seems like the best of 3 now-not-so-much new teams, even though it had negligible track time before AUS FP1...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Thx!

My thoughts exactly on next season, if Alonso, for examples, wins 3-4 of last 8 GPs, and Perez comes to Scuderia (I have a strong fealing its allready a done deal) next year, 2013. could see a mighty comeback... It wont be easy, and thus would make it an even greater succes.

Back to F2012, are there any indications that team is thinkig of refining its nose and the bump a bit? Looks to me like the extra air higher noses bring doesnt compensate the drag and other aero effects of those bumps... Look at MP4-27 and MR01, only ones with straight noses, first one is curently the best car, the other seems like the best of 3 now-not-so-much new teams, even though it had negligible track time before AUS FP1...

There's tons of rumors about what will and won't happen to the F2012. I personally don't think they will modify and large parts that require a chassis modification. Domenicali has said it's not needed, and why lie. You cannot hide doing a new crash test.
All the indications are the team need to get the exhaust sorted and work on a few finer details and the car will be what it should. Domenicali & Fry are set to meet with Montezemolo tonight or tomorrow so we'll see what happens.

[xpensive]

...
There's tons of rumors about what will and won't happen to the F2012. I personally don't think they will modify and large parts that require a chassis modification. Domenicali has said it's not needed, and why lie. You cannot hide doing a new crash test.
All the indications are the team need to get the exhaust sorted and work on a few finer details and the car will be what it should. Domenicali & Fry are set to meet with Montezemolo tonight or tomorrow so we'll see what happens.

Perhaps it could be seen another way X2, you cannot lie to Montezuma either, he's been around F1 since Dracula was a kid and
can tell a dog from a winner, where the F2012 obviously does not belong to the latter. Sugarcoating will not work on him.

Conclusively, I still believe in a new tub with new front suspension and xhaust for Spain in 53 days from now.

[f1316]

I think the positives are that the absolute gap in lap time to the front car is less than last year and that the car itself is in a very embrionic stage of development. Therefore, theoretically there should be more to come from it than a car that's working to its optimum.

The negative is that everyone's closer and it took a fantastic drive and a bit of luck even to get 5th yesterday - could very easily have been anything from 6th to 10th.

[bhall]

My initial thoughts were that the front pull rod suspension is a sort of off-the-wall attempt to build heat into the tires faster

How do you figure? Curious what the thought process was.

I simply couldn't think of another reason to make such a change. Even if it's not a particularly difficult one to make, it still seems like a lot of hassle to go through just to marginally clean up its aero impact and lower the CoG. So, I assumed they stumbled upon something new.

[Vanja #66]

There's tons of rumors about what will and won't happen to the F2012. I personally don't think they will modify and large parts that require a chassis modification. Domenicali has said it's not needed, and why lie. You cannot hide doing a new crash test.
All the indications are the team need to get the exhaust sorted and work on a few finer details and the car will be what it should. Domenicali & Fry are set to meet with Montezemolo tonight or tomorrow so we'll see what happens.

All I needed to know...

First thoughts I had about nose and its quite brutal bump-pitch were that pull-rod front suspension was designed before 2012 nose regulations were introduced, and that they had already done some positive load tests with its current position, so repositioning them would take a lot of resources and time. Therefore, they opted for a less painful solution, to make a steeper pitch and keep original position of front suspension relative to chassis.

I guessed that there is a way to reshape the nose without altering the chassis, but looking at pictures again, it seems there isnt...

As you said, there's no need for Stefano to lie about new chassis, so guess that option is for now out...

[Nando]

A 50 point lead is not that big a lead in this points system. Alonso managed to pull that kind of gap back in 2010.

I'm not of the belief that our upgrades will work. Our first upgrade package without Costa failed at Spa last year. Our car this year is a failure.

I think he took in 75 points even. Monza - Singapore - Korea.

Not counting the other points form other drivers though.

[ema00]

the good side of Ferrari:

43.945 Alonso

48.387 Vettel

46.112 Button

46.326 Hamilton

46.217 Webber

44.316 (the best two)

these are the sum of pit stop duration, look how fast are!!!

[FakeAlonso]

@Vanja #66 Welcome mate! I honestly think the WCC is out of reach unless the Massa from '08 suddenly shows up. If the team can recover, finish the season strong and carry momentum into the offseason, 2013 certainly looks bright.

Thx!

My thoughts exactly on next season, if Alonso, for examples, wins 3-4 of last 8 GPs, and Perez comes to Scuderia (I have a strong fealing its allready a done deal) next year, 2013. could see a mighty comeback... It wont be easy, and thus would make it an even greater succes.

Sorry I am a bit off topic but I think Perez should have been more generous to Alonso when he held him back and Alonso lost time. If Helmut Marko would have been to Ferrari, Perez would have ended like Algursuari when he stopped Vettel in Korea.

[amouzouris]

My thoughts exactly on next season, if Alonso, for examples, wins 3-4 of last 8 GPs, and Perez comes to Scuderia (I have a strong fealing its allready a done deal) next year, 2013. could see a mighty comeback... It wont be easy, and thus would make it an even greater succes.

Sorry I am a bit off topic but I think Perez should have been more generous to Alonso when he held him back and Alonso lost time. If Helmut Marko would have been to Ferrari, Perez would have ended like Algursuari when he stopped Vettel in Korea.

why should this be a bad thing? i think that the fact that managed to hold alonso back even for a little shows good signs...not bad...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

why should this be a bad thing? i think that the fact that managed to hold alonso back even for a little shows good signs...not bad...

I agree in two respects. One, I don't want any team giving us anything. It was despicable how Torro Rosso moved right over for Seb. I don't want anyone doing that for us.

Two, Perez is at the top of the list for the next open seat at Ferrari. If he has a good year and shows that he's matured, he may very well get it.

[amouzouris]

why should this be a bad thing? i think that the fact that managed to hold alonso back even for a little shows good signs...not bad...

I agree in two respects. One, I don't want any team giving us anything. It was despicable how Torro Rosso moved right over for Seb. I don't want anyone doing that for us.

Two, Perez is at the top of the list for the next open seat at Ferrari. If he has a good year and shows that he's matured, he may very well get it.

in my mind i think that its either perez or kubica IF and thats a big IF he can recover and be as good as before...

[markp]

Any ideas on the updates to get the original exhaust working. Just thinking about the basic concepts does anyone think they are having to change exhaust manifold 1st. My theory (sure it's full of holes) is that for hte ideas of mcl etc tto work they need as wide an operating window as possible ie mcl works well from a slower speed and they are fine tuned so as speed increases and exhaust flow does the flow and exhaust flow are in balance so always go to a similar target ie the floor. Ferrari seem to exit exhausts nearer the back fr more powerful effect but the operating window is smaller as will need more air flow to achieve this hence not good under braking or acceleration until a certain air speed is achieved. Also as their exhaust is closer to its target its power is harder to control in a short space if they gave it more space until the target although max effect would be less it would be easier to direct as exhaust flow would be weaker towards the target. What i am getting at is will the acer ducts be shorter and if so alot of packaging changes in the sidepod. I did not know if they really aimed at the brake ducts but if they did this would surely be near impossible to gain consistancey as the target is so small where mcl for example aim for the larger area of the floor for exhaust gas to then go along. Although less piwerful in theoey in reality it's far more achievable, better have a smaller amount of something than a largermount of nothing.