Ferrari F2012

[donskar]

We have some very intelligent posters on this forum, but overall, I think Scarbs has a superior blend of experience and inside contacts. I'll go with his opinion of the Ferrari's front suspension. They have problems, no doubt, but I think their tech team is several notches above incompetent.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Gary Henderson says it all:

Gary Anderson is the same guy who said the McLaren MP4-27 wouldn't do too well because it had a low nose..

Again we'll see what Ferrari does with their updates. I suspect as the team have indicated, the suspension works fine and they'll keep it. We'll see what the results are afterwards and revisit this topic. But as with donskar, I agree with Scarbs as he has more knowledge, experience as well as inside contacts. Plus while I agree Ferrari has aero problems, that doesn't necessarily translate to suspension problems.

[FakeAlonso]

Anyone knows if the F2012 will have some updates for Sepang or will be the same car and they will play only with set up?

[markp]

Gary Anderson said Mclaren may suffer down the line with low nose as less mass fllw to play with. I also disagree with suspension issue on the Ferrari the exhaust issue has had a negative cumulative effect on eveything else.

[Lycoming]

- I find it reasonable that the more rod-movement you have, the more freedom to play with stiffness and progressivity,
while it's rather obvious at least to me that the push-rod is superior to the pull-rod in that respect?

- As energy is force times length of travel, the longer push-rod travel means less force for the same suspension energy.

Not really... There's less rod movement but you can compensate that with the geometry of the rockers. In the end, they can have the same forces on the actual springs/dampers. In the end it's the same thing, just packaged differently. Perhaps pushrod gives you a wider range of travel, but considering how stiffly sprung these cars are and how little suspension travel they actually require, I don't think that really changes anything.

Besides, they obviously lack stability and rear end traction. it makes much more sense for them to be having issues with the rear exhaust or pitch sensitivity, which are both essentially aero problems.

[xpensive]

We have some very intelligent posters on this forum, but overall, I think Scarbs has a superior blend of experience and inside contacts. I'll go with his opinion of the Ferrari's front suspension.
...

Prepared to put your money where your mouth is on that one Don?

@Lycoming; With force times length of travel, I meant the push/pull-rod, the less travel the more force in the rod,
how you amplify that travel in the rocker is beside the point.

[timbo]

@Lycoming; With force times length of travel, I meant the push/pull-rod, the less travel the more force in the rod,
how you amplify that travel in the rocker is beside the point.

And how the force on the rod matters on spring/damper behavior?

[donskar]

We have some very intelligent posters on this forum, but overall, I think Scarbs has a superior blend of experience and inside contacts. I'll go with his opinion of the Ferrari's front suspension.
...

Prepared to put your money where your mouth is on that one Don?

You mean we DON'T have any intelligent posters?

I learned from my Italian mother, never argue with people who use terms like "vendetta" and "omerta." [-o<

[Afterburner]

Gary Anderson is the same guy who said the McLaren MP4-27 wouldn't do too well because it had a low nose..

Again we'll see what Ferrari does with their updates. I suspect as the team have indicated, the suspension works fine and they'll keep it. We'll see what the results are afterwards and revisit this topic. But as with donskar, I agree with Scarbs as he has more knowledge, experience as well as inside contacts. Plus while I agree Ferrari has aero problems, that doesn't necessarily translate to suspension problems.

Gary was wrong like Ferrari also was with original the design, no point proved in that.

I'm a Ferrari fan but i'm really concerned with this years car, i'm starting losing my faith on them.

Massa is going to get a new chassis for Sepang, any thoughts on what went wrong with 293 chassis?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Gary was wrong like Ferrari also was with original the design, no point proved in that.

I'm a Ferrari fan but i'm really concerned with this years car, i'm starting losing my faith on them.

Massa is going to get a new chassis for Sepang, any thoughts on what went wrong with 293 chassis?

Good question mate. I'm not so sure anything was wrong with it, I don't think the team is either. But after Italian media started calling for his head, they decided to give him a new chassis "to be sure". I hope in a way it was the chassis, because I hope Felipe hasn't lost it. On the other hand, chassis problems aren't good.
I just hope the big update coming works well and the car can be competitive with the leaders. )

[timbo]

Good question mate. I'm not so sure anything was wrong with it, I don't think the team is either. But after Italian media started calling for his head, they decided to give him a new chassis "to be sure". I hope in a way it was the chassis, because I hope Felipe hasn't lost it. On the other hand, chassis problems aren't good.
I just hope the big update coming works well and the car can be competitive with the leaders. )

Somebody mentioned chassis problem (cracking at the crane hangs) right after the race here. So maybe there was something in the air already.
If this is a testing chassis it has a lot of miles on it, and maybe it was thermally stressed too much (although exhaust should not really affect the tub?) in the earlier part of testing.

[xpensive]

@Lycoming; With force times length of travel, I meant the push/pull-rod, the less travel the more force in the rod,
how you amplify that travel in the rocker is beside the point.

And how the force on the rod matters on spring/damper behavior?

Those fat wishbones tells a story about high compression forces and the short pull-rod travel makes the window of stiffness
and progressitivity xtremely small and delicate to adjust I can imagine.

[Nando]

Gary Anderson said Mclaren may suffer down the line with low nose as less mass fllw to play with.

Mclaren is the only other team to win races consistently over the last few years since 2010.

I´m not sure this "down the line" exists at all. Then we should not forget noses are getting lower in the coming years so arguably Mclaren is the team to look out for.

[timbo]

@Lycoming; With force times length of travel, I meant the push/pull-rod, the less travel the more force in the rod,
how you amplify that travel in the rocker is beside the point.

And how the force on the rod matters on spring/damper behavior?

Those fat wishbones tells a story about high compression forces and the short pull-rod travel makes the window of stiffness
and progressitivity xtremely small and delicate to adjust I can imagine.

As already said what's important is damper/spring travel, and that can be adjusted by a rocker.

[Chuckjr]

If the back end of the car is loose (as it has clearly shown to be), wouldn't common sense tell you the front end is gripping so much that the rear cannot keep up--in this case, the front is working so well that its emphasizing the rear problems? It seems insessent pushing would be more of a barometer for a front end fundamental problem than a loose rear end?