Ferrari F2012

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 16:21
Location: Cape Town

Re: Ferrari F2012

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EDIT: A separate thread has been started about this video. Others point out the total lack of air across the rear wing.
radosav wrote:Cfd ferrari f2012 http://vimeo.com/39096659
I have seen the criticisms of this cfd.
HOWEVERif it is anything like accurate shurly it shows where their problem is. To use an expression well known to members of 2+ years standing it is their version of the dead zone. The rear wing is in a completely sheltered region getting just eddies of turbulent air. The main airflow is directed out around the outside of the rear tyres.
I accept that the higher airstreams may not be shown in this cfd.
Last edited by tok-tokkie on 25 Mar 2012, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Lycoming wrote:So what is actually harder to adjust?
Well access to the components to adjust them is more difficult with the pull rod but other than that they are equivalent. As with all the talk about McLaren's L shaped side pods being fundamentally flawed, or their low nose concept this year being the wrong direction to go, there are a lot of stubborn minds on this forum who just won't let go of the thought that Ferrari's issues are due to a different front suspension geometry. We've not seen the Ferrari having issues at the front of the car. There are no huge understeer moments, the front tyres aren't wearing disproportionately, etc. There is no evidence pointing towards front suspension problems beyond C of G looking higher than the rest and a few people thinking that it looks a bit funny.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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I think just watching the Malaysian Grand Prix and watching the F2012 go around, the pull rod front suspension is not the problem. The car is remarkably good in the wet, something it shouldn't be if there were inherent front suspension problems.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:I think just watching the Malaysian Grand Prix and watching the F2012 go around, the pull rod front suspension is not the problem. The car is remarkably good in the wet, something it shouldn't be if there were inherent front suspension problems.
Guess you should pray for a rainy season then?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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xpensive wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:I think just watching the Malaysian Grand Prix and watching the F2012 go around, the pull rod front suspension is not the problem. The car is remarkably good in the wet, something it shouldn't be if there were inherent front suspension problems.
Guess you should pray for a rainy season then?
Yeah I would say the same thing if I was wrong about the suspension too. :lol:

If they can make a step forward with the aero on the car, they will have a winner. A winner with the pull rod front.

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Hail22
144
Joined: 08 Feb 2012, 07:22

Re: Ferrari F2012

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The pull rod has yet to prove a failed choice for Ferrari, Ferrari however are lacking around 50-60 points of downforce so a lot of work to be done.
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

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timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:I think just watching the Malaysian Grand Prix and watching the F2012 go around, the pull rod front suspension is not the problem. The car is remarkably good in the wet, something it shouldn't be if there were inherent front suspension problems.
Maybe they gambled on the setup a bit. It was strange looking McLaren and Williams dropping. But as in Australia the race pace is not bad.

bhall
bhall
244
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Ferrari F2012

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timbo wrote:Maybe they gambled on the setup a bit.
There's no doubt in my mind that Ferrari gambled on setup. There was literally no reason not to.

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
11
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: Ferrari F2012

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No gamble at all. During the red flag, all the car went for wet setup.

timbo
timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:No gamble at all. During the red flag, all the car went for wet setup.
Well, just how much they can do on the starting grid? I think maybe they went for a rain setup heading to Q3.

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raymondu999
54
Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Ferrari F2012

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I hink it's the pull-rod front that's making this car quick /end sarcasm :mrgreen:
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Postmoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 16:57

Re: Ferrari F2012

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bhallg2k wrote:
Postmoe wrote:Yes, I'm new [...]
My problem with, "since when did a suspension cause a lack of downforce," is that it betrays a mindset at Ferrari that allows these problems to happen again and again and again. There are many ways that a vehicle's suspension can adversely effect downforce. Even if none of them are present in the F2012, I feel a competent engineer wouldn't allow those words to escape his mouth in that order.

I think the team needs abandon this season and use the remaining races as testing sessions while they do some major housecleaning back home. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure this will all happen again next year.
Man, that argumental path is completely crazy, you ought to know you're a radical:

1- A guy at Ferrari points the obvious but forgets to say that a 0.0000000000001 correlation is possible between a FS wich has been tested and seems fine and rear DF.

2- Ferrari has, because of that, a wrong attitude towards development and engineering.

3- F2012, a car that with all its defaults is close than last year's to competitive status and has greater potential, to be abandoned after the first race.


Are you serious? As you said some statements can't escape an engineer mouth, other quotes can't escape someone who is willing to talk about team strategies.


It remembers me an article about management I found last week http://www.businessweek.com/management/ ... 82011.html. "Three Types of People to Fire Immediately". In the end, it consisted of firing everyone without knowing even why. "Fire them!". Great strategy.

In real life good strategies are not about being radical, or creative, or firing everyone. Ask Jobs. It's about sticking with your likely absurd ideas, working, and making chinese work for you even harder. Chinese exploitation is key.

Even if I'm sarcastic, I appreciate your replies. Seriously, different points of view are funny.

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banibhusan
1
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 13:08

Re: Ferrari F2012

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I wonder what happened to Alonso in the last stint? Perez so damn faster than him. Is it the wet set-up or he was conserving his tyres or that's the true pace of the Ferrari? :?

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Postmoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012, 16:57

Re: Ferrari F2012

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timbo wrote:
Lorenzo_Bandini wrote:No gamble at all. During the red flag, all the car went for wet setup.
Well, just how much they can do on the starting grid? I think maybe they went for a rain setup heading to Q3.
I think they can do what they need to adjust within minutes if it's allowed with the red flag. Perhaps no major changes, but I also think they can change the setup quite easily without ripping the car's guts.

Ferrari modified the setup in a way times with wet track were better after the RF than before it.

Lorenzo_Bandini
Lorenzo_Bandini
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 12:15

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Yes, just after the SC period, Alonso was the fastest with Perez, even RB and Mclaren couldn't match his time.