Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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GrizzleBoy
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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raymondu999 wrote:
GrizzleBoy wrote:Cop out.
That's your view on it. The internet is good for discussions - but when one already has his mind set; there is no point. I have much better things to do.
And as I said, you are jusr posting cop outs tbh.

You posted an onboard of Seb making the move and ASKED if Seb was holding a constant distance from the edge of the track as he accelerated out of the corner.

Video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y58RrNo-Rp0[/youtube]

I replied no and proceeded to show you second by second on that same video where Seb was not holding constant distance from the edge of the track.

You dont even need to watch the video, the thumbnail alone clearly shows Sebastians nose pointing over towards the inside of the next corner which is a dead giveaway that he's not holding a constant distance from the edge of the track.

You replied "that's just your take on it".

Sorry, but you're the one who asked us to watch the video and see if we could see what you did. Unfortunately I didn't and explained in much detail why.

If your actual motive was not to actually discuss the video, but to "shut up" anyone who disagreed with you, then I can see how actually discussing any opposing view to the one that held when you posted the video would be a waste of time as you say.

Its ironic that you mention the term "discussions", when your very first move after possibly being proven wrong is to refuse to defend your point even slightly and attempt to dismiss any opposing view without even saying why you think opposite.

Now that is what I'd call a waste of time.

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banibhusan
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Doesn't matter though. He still managed to poke his finger out of the cockpit. #-o

When will he realize that we are tired of seeing his fingers!! [-o<

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raymondu999
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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fenix4life wrote:I think Vetel said that they lost radio control in the beginning of the race.
Not for the whole race. Possibly they fixed it during the red flag situation
Yeah. Rocky came on air early on and shouted "Sebastian we cannot hear you. Your radio is broken. Use the pit confirm button and the tyre rotary to reply us." It seems that maybe it was a 1-way problem where he could still hear the pits but not vice versa
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Hail22
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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What i don't like is that Vettel was name calling NK...Gherkin? Idiot? thats not very nice from a supposed (champion).

If I was to weigh it up thats worse than Hamiltons dummy spit at Monaco last year, not very diplomatic is he?
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Goran2812
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Horner is a pig... After seeing those videos, him and his finger boy wonder are idiots... how can someone act like that is out of this world...
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Hail22
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Goran2812 wrote:Horner is a pig... After seeing those videos, him and his finger boy wonder are idiots... how can someone act like that is out of this world...
Probably worse then the disgusting attitude flavio fattotore (yes i changed his surname on purpose) was like during interviews during the Renault days.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeeEP6ZwCVU[/youtube]
I have looked at the video once again showing the whole incident. There are some interesting points:

In the video sequence you see blue flag flashing signals at four points beginning when Alonso makes his pass. There is also one between Vettel arriving behind Katikeyan and Alonso already having passed. And then there are two more flashing blue lights during and after the incident. Knowing the FiA signal system we can say with 100% certainty that Katikeyan had a blue light in his cockpit at least from the moment when Alonso successfully passed and beyond the accident point. We can be sure the system was working because there was no complaint about a malfunction. The system is designed to reflect the flashing blue light when a backmarker's transponder is detected between the circuit blue lights and show it in the cockpit.

Katikeyan made place for Alonso ok. He says he ran over marbles, a rumble strip or a wet curb which made him loose control. I have some serious doubts about that. In the video he touches a curb on the corner entry when Alonso passes him. But he then takes the corner under good traction and never looks out of control behind the apex. At least there is no stepping out of his back end at the corner exit to justify leaving the outside edge of the corner by several meters. If he was on the curb at all - which I doubt - and only wanted to get off the curb he did not need to come back to the inside as much as he did. If there were marbles on the track it could not have been so serious that he had to get back on the racing line. A bit of a lift could have done the same for him. I believe his statement is simply a cop out.

The logical explanation is that he made an assumption that he was going to be lapped only by one driver. In that situation he simply could have observed his blue light in the cockpit to know that he was still required to let a leading driver pass. I believe he probably was too much worried that a competitor would use Alonso's pass to pass as well. So he wanted to go on the racing line as fast as possible and failed to check his blue light.

Coulthard compounded the analysis by comparing the situation with Turkey 2010 which was completely different. In Turkey it was Vettel who made the move but yesterday in Malaysia Vettel held his line and Katikeyan moved inside towards the racing line.
2012 Malaysian Grand Prix, The FIA Stewards of the Meeting
From The FIA Stewards of the Meeting To The Team Manager HRT F1 Team
Document 36, Date 25 March 2012, Time 19:40
The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been commited by the competitor named below and impose the penalty referred to.
No / Driver: 23 - Narain Karthikeyan
Competitor: HRT F1 Team
Time: 18:32:00
Session: Race
Fact: Causing a collision with Car 1 Sebastian Vettel
Offence: Involved in an incident as defined by Article 16.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations

Decision: Drive through penalty, imposed after the race in accordance with article 16.3 (20 seconds added to elapsed race time)
Reason: Self-explanatory
Paul Gutjahr, Roger Peart, Johnny Herbert, Allen Oh
As we know the stewards have found fault with Katikeyans driving and it must have been the point that he moved too early to the inside. Apparently they did not believe his defence any more than I do.
Hail22 wrote:What i don't like is that Vettel was name calling NK...Gherkin? Idiot? thats not very nice from a supposed (champion).
I think this is a cultural issue. Vettel comes from a culture where people are often much more outspoken and unpolite particularly in stress situations and where the standards of public speaking are more relaxed than in the UK which sets the standard for the English spoken world. We have a young man in a stress situation who is very upset with what has happened. He feels that Kartikeyan made a mistake that may cost him very dearly and he knows the guy should know better.

I'm not very happy with the "idiot" label and I think Vettel will regret that once he has had a bit of time to cool off and get over it. You can call that a mistake but we have seen worse lapses of protocol where drivers got into fist fights over racing accidents. One should not make a character judgement or witch hunt out of it.
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myurr
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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WhiteBlue - several problems with your analysis:

1) The blue lights are for the next car behind they don't specify how many cars to let through, nor should it be taken as given that a car will let you through on the first corner you come across them. Under the blue flag rules Karthikeyan actually had three corners within which to let Vettel through.

2) You can clearly see on the onboard video from Vettel's car that as NK is letting the car ahead through that the rear of his car squirms showing that he was struggling for traction. Sure a bit of a lift could have helped sort the rear end out but there was no obligation for him to do so.

3) Are you 100% sure the blue lights are updated in real time and that a simple glance down would have told him to let Vettel through (even though he actually would have had three corners in which to do so?). I would be amazed if it were a 100% automated system that updates in real time. I don't think the transponders are accurate or reliable enough.

4) I can't believe you are criticising a driver for wanting to race the competitors around him!! That line of thought really smacks of thinking Vettel has some kind of entitlement to a totally clear track.

5) Vettel came from incredibly far back, took an unusual line that involved running wider than the racing line, and ran far too close to a slower car. That's not the other car's fault. You can see from the onboard video how NK had no way of knowing that Vettel was going to come through like that .

6) Since when have the stewards always got every last decision right. Indeed you've criticised them in the past when they've penalised Vettel. You were also the most outspoken person on this board during the Turkey incident blaming Webber 100%.

7) Cultural issue or not this is not the first time he's been disparaging about another driver, and the fist actions whilst trying to catch up the HRT when having only 3 wheels on the car betray a hot headed arrogance in instantly blaming the other driver when he could have taken the corner differently himself. We saw this with the Turkey incident and the 'crazy' signs directed at Webber and the insulting comments made after the race, and no doubt we'll see this true character again in the future.

Having thought about it though, I for one actually welcome it even if I strongly disagree with the sentiment. I'd rather the drivers show personality rather than just being corporate robots. However it does give lie to the image certain quarters try to portray about Vettel just being a really nice down to earth kid. He's an arrogant and cocky arse at times, even if he can be fun and nice at others.

Giblet
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Not a very sportsmanlike thing to say. There are a simple set of rules that sportsmen are supposed to follow. You don't talk ill of others, just their actions. As an example, "Vettel is stupid". Well obviusly he is not. "Vettel said a stupid thing" is accurate. Other simple rules they get in media training are never say anything with certainty beyond your control. Thats why you never hear them say "We are going to win the championship this year", even if it is as sure a thing as Vettel winning last year.

Nahrain showed how to act with the media in a poor situation. Vettel only left a few extra inches, and in wet conditions, cars almost _always_ come back in a bit after the corner. Straightening out at the end of the corner in a hard to drive HRT means you need to leave more room.

He really came across as a spoiled brat. I hope he takes a lesson from this. He usually does come back stronger.

The more I have looked at the incident, the more it I see it is not 100% NK's fault.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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raymondu999
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Giblet wrote:I hope he takes a lesson from this. He usually does come back stronger.
Ditto.

Well then. Back to more positive subjects.

Here's something I read on Autosport which piqued my interest:
Morris says Sauber knew it had a good package for the conditions: "We know the car is good in the wet, and we were discussing it before the race. This was the perfect scenario for us really. With the characteristics of our car, wet weather was definitely the best for us. We knew we had a really good chance of staying where we were, or getting even higher.

"When we ran the car with the full wets and the inters in Melbourne we knew we were very competitive. The downforce and drag level that we were running in Malaysia suits the wet conditions."
(Morris is Matt Morris. Sauber's Chief Designer).

So are we looking at a car that is good in the wet but sort of rubbish in the dry?

EDIT: Well not rubbish; but as in, it's not a world beater in the dry.
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SeijaKessen
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Vettel's refusal to accept blame in a lot of situations reminds me an awful lot of the way Schumacher was in the early 90s.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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@ WhiteBlue

What was Alonso's role in all of this As far as im aware, Fernando was 20 seconds up the road ?
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NathanOlder
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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raymondu999 wrote:
Giblet wrote:I hope he takes a lesson from this. He usually does come back stronger.
Ditto.

Well then. Back to more positive subjects.

Here's something I read on Autosport which piqued my interest:
Morris says Sauber knew it had a good package for the conditions: "We know the car is good in the wet, and we were discussing it before the race. This was the perfect scenario for us really. With the characteristics of our car, wet weather was definitely the best for us. We knew we had a really good chance of staying where we were, or getting even higher.

"When we ran the car with the full wets and the inters in Melbourne we knew we were very competitive. The downforce and drag level that we were running in Malaysia suits the wet conditions."
(Morris is Matt Morris. Sauber's Chief Designer).

So are we looking at a car that is good in the wet but sort of rubbish in the dry?

EDIT: Well not rubbish; but as in, it's not a world beater in the dry.
A win at Silverstone then ? :P Bet on it now. Silverstone is always wet, especially as Im going this year. Garenteed to rain
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raymondu999
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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Silverstone isn't ALWAYS wet... 07/09/10 were all dry - as were a few years before that. Also don't forget this is the first bit of wet weather running on an aero-heavy track. The others might have learnt something from this race.

But I guess Sauber could spring in a bit of a surprise at Spa.
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GrizzleBoy
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Re: Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

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I'd like to see these lower teams remain competitive towards the end of the season.

Would be nice to see the young Sauber/Toro Rosso/Williams drivers being able to show how they can race against top drivers through a season, as opposed to just squabbling with each other in their own little world so to speak.

New faces on the podium please.