2004 Chasssis Comparisions

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
uzael
uzael
0
Joined: 10 Jul 2003, 19:24
Location: Indianapolis

2004 Chasssis Comparisions

Post

Unlike the beginning of the 2003 season we can now compare apples to apples since all the teams have released their 2004 competitors and I was wondering how the more technically minded here on the list think each will fare given their development from last year. Where do you think the teams have improved and how much?

I see it as such...

Ferrari - Obviously King of the hill. With an excellent aerodynamic package and their fantastic reliability, it seems that they once again will be the main compeitiors for the title. Don;t let the lack of external differences at the launch fool you, this monster is going to be tough. Great Chassis, Great Engine

Williams - The new 'walrus' nose could go either way I think. Could be a new direction in aero dev for F1, or it could be a total waste. True they've been fast, but testing in the pre-season rarely has anything to do with in season performance. Great Chassis? Best Engine

McLaren - Even with the most time since their car has been lanched, they seem to be beset with problems. First the car was unreliable (Mp4-18A), now with a year's worth of RD they have improved on that, but problems fitting the drivers into the cars, combined with the problems from mounting the new merc engine could spell trouble. Average Chassis, Good Engine.

Renault - Pace good in the pre-season, but I think they're going to suffer in engine development as the season goes on. 72 degree is too far behind the times to keep up with 90 degree tech. Great (Possibly Best) Chassis, Moderate engine (expecially as the season progresses)

BAR - Superb pace in the pre-season leads me to belive this is all smoke and mirrors. Dave richards is most likely trying to pump up buttons value to sell him to FW when the season comes to an end. I see another Honda protege taking the second seat beside Sato next year. Eevn with the switch to michelins, I just can't see how BAR has made such a massive improvement to be topping the timesheets. Good Chassis? Good Engine?

Sauber - Since this year's sauber is 75% last years ferrari plus the 04 ferrari engine, I expect excellent prefomrnace from the Sauber crew. But I imagine the Fisi will suffer sense all the ferrari weight is obviously behind Massa (not sure why though). I imagine Fisi will finsih his 2 years there and retire. Good Chassis, Great Engine

Jaguar - Well, what can you say about Jaguar. MW is too damn good to be in this team. They almost ruined pixxonia's career and look likely to do that to christian kline. Poor chassis mated with moderate engine, definetly back half of the grid.

Jordan - I sure hope that the EJ14 has made all the progress that the jordan team says it has. But they say that every year. I sadly see this season as the last one where EJ is the majority owner. He simply can't fight the big boys anymore. Privateers are dying in this climate and his double pay-driver scheme certainly won;t help his credibility in hiring good staff. Modearete (at best) chassis with moderate engine. No good...

Toyota - You'd figure with all the money toyota has poured in over the last 4 years they'd be highed on the grid than they have been, but it takes time. The toyota engine should be strong, but the chassis will be pretty average I think. Wait until next season I think to see the real pace begin.
Average Chassis, Good engine. Can't wait to see.

Minardi - Nothing much to say. Worst Chassis, SHittiest customer engine deal available. I love them for their spirit, but they will never make it past the 9th row without a miracle. Poor Chassis, Poor Engine.
"I'll bring us through this. As always. I'll carry you - kicking and screaming - and in the end you'll thank me. "

rodlamas
rodlamas
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 13:03

Post

I just can´t see this way.

How come Sauber´s chassis is better than the Mclaren one? In Barcelona, tehere was only one team that was slower than Mclaren (and that´s when Kimi said it all went wrong). And that was Sauber.

Sauber is also mounted on Bridgestones, that now is going to have problems because Michelin has got much more miles under its belt during all winter. This only leads to better tyres, that not only have better top performance, but also have more durability and are also more consistent.

Mclaren is going to have a very good season, much better than it´s looking and than you are all precidting. They´ve been testing since late november with the new car. It´s obvious that they know this car a lot and if it was a bad one, they would review all the project. And also a fast car does not become slow from one day to another.

Mclaren is trying new things regarding the MP4/19B that is due to be introduced mid-season and that´s why sometimes it looks slower and unrealiable. Wurz has already stated that there´s an standart car an another one that is a development car.

And finally KR stated for the finish press that things after Jerez are looking much better and that he has spent more than 200 laps around the circuit without any problems and also said that although Mercedes are not on the BMW level, they are not far behind.

So my predictions are:

Ferrari is going to have problems because the Michelins are going to be faster, but they are still going to be there.

Williams is going to have a very good car, an amazing engine but the problems will arise mid-season because of both drivers leaving.

Mclaren is going to have a very good car, a very good engine (I suspect that by when the MP4/19B is introduced Mercedes will be on the BMW level) and will have drivers that are more motivated than ever.

Renault is going to have an amazing chassis, a good engine (probably will not save as much as fuel as the RS23 and will be some 30-40 bhp off the pace) and very good drivers. Hope that Trulli´s luck changes.

BAR is going to have a good chassis, a very good engine, but the problems lie with the drivers. Jenson is more unlucky than Trulli and Sato knows to drive only at Suzuka. But the change to Michelins will prove to be a very good one. The third car of Anthony Davidosn can be a major help for them.

Jaguar will only be put sometimes near the top by Webber. Klien is going to have problems with not knowing the tracks.

Sauber has a very good chassis and engine package, but they´ll have Bridgestones. Let´s wait and see.

I expect Jordan to improve a lot. But these is only going to happen if they have no more than 1/3 of the engine failures they had in 2003.

Toyota is not going to be where everybody expected it to be. The new car is not fast. They could have major problems.

And finally Minardi. Any guess?

Cheers, hope that there´s not going to be a comment longer than this one.
"I only race to finisht first, because the second is the first looser" Ayrton Senna

Irvingthien
Irvingthien
0
Joined: 17 Nov 2003, 03:40

Post

combined with the problems from mounting the new merc engine could spell trouble. Average Chassis, Good Engine.
McLaren has problems on their test on Barcelona, probably with the mounting of the Mercedes engine to Newey's chasis or the twoclutch gearbox they've been working on, but some postings says that twoclutch was not allowed in F1. News from F1 websites repoted that one of the Mac driver says they cannot get the "flow" going at Barcelona. i doubt that McLaren has an average chasis, especially there s Newy around with Oatley and Coughlan designing the car, so the resources designing the car must be doublrd compare to previous years. However I'm not so sure about the engine, the instalment of Laurenz doesn't seems to be much help. They need gold coating to dipersed heat at the rear, isn't gold the heaviest metal in the world?

User avatar
Scuderia_Russ
0
Joined: 17 Jan 2004, 22:24
Location: Motorsport Valley, England.

Post

72 deg is too far behind the times to keep up with 90 degree tech???!!! I think you'll find that not only are Renault reverting to tried and tested championship winning engine design/ideas from their Benetton and Williams days (75 wins '89-'97),but last years engine had problems that when fixed added a lot of weight,they shouldn't have these this year.Renault have got an excellent chassis and a lightweight gearbox that i believe will see them win races again this year.I know i've said this for three years running now, but hopefully Trulli can start converting some of that qualifying speed!! Renault will yet again be the surprise of the field...mark my words!
"Whether you think you can or can't, either way you are right."
-Henry Ford-

dumrick
dumrick
0
Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

Post

Scuderia_Russ wrote:72 deg is too far behind the times to keep up with 90 degree tech???!!! I think you'll find that not only are Renault reverting to tried and tested championship winning engine design/ideas from their Benetton and Williams days (75 wins '89-'97),but last years engine had problems that when fixed added a lot of weight,they shouldn't have these this year.Renault have got an excellent chassis and a lightweight gearbox that i believe will see them win races again this year.I know i've said this for three years running now, but hopefully Trulli can start converting some of that qualifying speed!! Renault will yet again be the surprise of the field...mark my words!
Agree. There's no "72º tech" and "90º tech". 90º is a technical choice providing, in theory, better chassis/engine integration. The 72º choice provided Renault not to have to make again all dynamic balance calculations (has their 20th century engines had already that configuration).
The solutions developed to provide reliability to the wide-V engine, must have certainly allowed their 2004 and very classic engine to be reliable and low-weight.
Anyway, there's no reason whatsoever for a 72º engine to be less powerful then a 90º one (provided easier lubrication and natural balance of the earlier, it would rather be the other way around).

Guest
Guest
0

Post

72° V-angled engine could be as powerful if not even more powerful than a 90° V-angled engine!! Look at Mercedes for example with their first 90° V-angled engine in 2002 which did not even produce more power than their engine they used in 1998...according to Newey...(who was clearly quite frustrated about that!!)

With a 72° V-angled engine you definitely have less vibrations as an issue!! Teams tend to move to the 90° option because they beleive the center of gravity benefits outweigh the risks/issues of greater vibrations. With a lot of R&D being done in this field already by the manufacturers and the use of exotic materials/metals, the 90° engines could be built stiff enough to overcome the challenges of having a 10 cylinders 90° V-angled engine rev @19,000rpm or above and produce 900 bhp in excess.

Bear87G
Bear87G
0

Post

Russ well done. Renault will be the suprise team again and I hope it is a Renault one two in the fight for the championship.

Renault Fan
R24
RS24
R23
R23B
RS23

elf
elf
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 07:32

Post

Agree with russ, dumrick, guest & bear - renault will definitely be strong this year. Excellent chassis design, with a logical change to 72 deg engine. Alonso - Trulli to finish 1-2 in Melbourne. hehe Fisi's probably kicking himself for not staying...

Guest
Guest
0

Post

BAR may well be the surprise packet this year. I'm not sure about the strong lap times set in testing, though. LOL in my opinion, it's a message from BAR saying, "Screw you Bridgestone, you Ferrari A$$ lickin' %$%#@! Thx for all the cr@p tyres - now we have Michelins, we can finally kick a$$. Thx for nuthin, ya &#%&!!".

Well, they are my sentiments about Bridgestone anyway :roll: .

Aradea
Aradea
0
Joined: 05 Jan 2004, 20:12
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia

Post

You R Soo Right... BAR Is Soo Gonna Kick Ass this Year. U'll See.. :lol:

kluxorious
kluxorious
0
Joined: 27 Jan 2004, 17:54

Post

bridgestone sux. gonna piss off as hell if these crappy rubbers will cause Sauber's performance to deteriorate
:: there are shades in all good pictures, but there are lights too, if we choose to contemplate them ::

Alex M3
Alex M3
0
Joined: 29 Nov 2003, 22:49
Location: NC

Post

kluxorious wrote:bridgestone sux. gonna piss off as hell if these crappy rubbers will cause Sauber's performance to deteriorate
\\

Running a tweaked F2003-GA with an '04 spec motor, i can't imagine Sauber's performance deteriorating.

I think Ferrari's ace up the sleeve will be reliability. Williams will have the better motor and chassis though i think.. we'll see soon!
<a href="mailto:mchewa0@wfu.edu">Precision Performance Services Inc.</a>
Custom BMW race and high-performance street engines
(336)-761-0643
<img src="http://www.campushook.com/users/16499/i ... iginal.jpg">
<a href="mailto:mchewa0@wfu.edu">mchewa0@wfu.edu</a>

FerrariManiac
FerrariManiac
0
Joined: 03 Feb 2004, 14:25

Post

Yeah... Imola's results, 0.041s Sauber behind renault... lol
and Ferrari 2003GA 241 milisecs behind Renault while on tyre development program?

For what I see, Bridgestone are not that a gap behind Michelin anymore.
Last edited by FerrariManiac on 19 Feb 2004, 11:50, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
joseff
11
Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

Post

Say Alex, isn't it time to swap that fat FW24 rear end pic for an equally ugly FW26 nose? :P

Don't flame me! I'm always a Williams fan! Why oh why oh why didn't Gavin Fisher learn something from Newey about making good looking fast cars?

rodlamas
rodlamas
0
Joined: 14 Jan 2004, 13:03

Post

But the day before Renault was one second faster than they were before.

And I read an article yesterday saying a much important point: the interest on winter testing is getting bigger and beigger each sesaon. So, to attract sponsors, people run differently.

I´ll repeat for the 3517th time: before the start of 2001 Jos Verstappen broke the Barcelona record and then in Australia was in 20th on the grid.

Do you still think that you can draw any conclusions if Bridgestone is 0.5 slower or 0.5 faster? You´ll see this only in Melbourne.

Ferrari has not even tested the F2004 in front of the oppsition.

Have your own bets and then we´ll see what happens in 2 weeks time.
"I only race to finisht first, because the second is the first looser" Ayrton Senna