Ferrari F2012

[Ferraripilot]

I've been told since I was a child that if you have the fastest car on wet conditions, mechanical grip is right in place and working well, very well. SO, I really can't see a problem with pull rod, but that is just my opinion.

Welcome Franz. I have to disagree with regarding to having a fast car in the wet. Last year, Mercedes W02 was very very fast in the wet but not competitive in dry conditions. When it's wet, nothing makes sense any more. The Ferrari has some fundamental issues to sort through and they will be on the back foot all season because of it unfortunately. Glad to have you here though Franz, thank you.

[Jersey Tom]

My Italian is a bit rusty, but that article is BS. If they don't understand how that geometry can support load they need to revisit geometry class, statics, or vectors.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Welcome Franz. I have to disagree with regarding to having a fast car in the wet. Last year, Mercedes W02 was very very fast in the wet but not competitive in dry conditions. When it's wet, nothing makes sense any more. The Ferrari has some fundamental issues to sort through and they will be on the back foot all season because of it unfortunately. Glad to have you here though Franz, thank you.

You just made his point in your post. Ok the W02 was good in the wet and decent(4th) in the dry. That doesn't mean their suspension was bad. That it needed to be changed. I concede they had degradation problems, but they had push rod front suspension.

elFranZ welcome to the forum. As I posted earlier, AutoSprint has a larger story in this weeks edition on the pull rod. Keep in mind they are not saying with certainty that it's the pull rod. I agree the main problems are lack of good aerodynamic downforce and a temporary exhaust layout is the problem. Either way we will see soon what changes and see if any of the changes work.
I agree with you that if the front suspension was the problem as some here suggest, the car wouldn't have been so good in Malaysia.

@JT I will post their few article around 2:30pm EST

[Twaddle]

I think McLaren, Red Bull and Sauber are each demonstrating the concept of using the air flow over the car to push the exhaust plume down and to the diffuser. Where Ferrari has gone wrong - obviously a guess on my part - is that the rounded Acer ducts allow too much air flow to spill over the sides before it can interact with the exhaust, which significantly hampers the ability to use it effectively.

I base this assumption in part because McLaren's solution - said to be very effective - uses its exhaust housings almost like tables to prevent such spillage.

I think that to appreciate why the McLaren solution is more effective you need to consider how it's 'pulling' the exhaust as well as pushing it. No doubt their sidepod shape is also important, but I think this is more about making it easier to achieve the desired effect without overly compromising the flow to other areas of the car. For me the key ingredient that was missing from the Ferrari solution, and that still sets the McLaren solution apart from the rest, is the channel that the exhaust flows into.

[elFranZ]

thank you guys for the welcome, it's a pleasure to be here.
And a BIG thank you to Crucial, I'm a big fan of yours.

I'm going a little off topic, hope nobody minds: Ferrari have still lot to do in PR. Last year here in Italy we had practically every single motorsport newspaper and tv show calling out Aldo Costa. Do you remember what happened next?
That is not the case for Domenicali, his head being claimed since the very first day he became team principal, but I really hope not to see the same game again this year... I suspect Tombazis is having hard times staying cool and concentrate.

Then, a question for all of you: do you think we'll see some consistent update in China, or we have to wait Bahrain or Europe? I mean, two weeks to go, probably much work already done on "spec-B" car since Jerez, so how long would it take to re-engineer all the back package?

[amouzouris]

the front pull-rod arguments will die come monaco...if the pull-rod is a problem (which i dont believe it is) the car will not be good in monaco...if the car is not good in the slow corners as it was in the past years...then the pull-rod might be considered a problem...what do u guys think?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Then, a question for all of you: do you think we'll see some consistent update in China, or we have to wait Bahrain or Europe? I mean, two weeks to go, probably much work already done on "spec-B" car since Jerez, so how long would it take to re-engineer all the back package?

The team has said they will have updates in China & Bahrain. And then the larger update for the Mugello test & Spain. So as Jose Luis(Ferrari source) has said basically the updates for the F2012 are in 3 phases. Ferrari are expecting the the combination of the updates to put them towards the top in Spain. Word is if the car is not competitive enough to fight for wins & podiums in Monaco, they will probably focus on 2013 from that point forward.

I'm very interested in seeing what updates are brought to China. On one hand Montezemolo says the updates are to come as soon as possible. And then Domenicali says some should be tested in Mugello. I suppose with the win in Malaysia, it gives the team some time in Luca's eyes to possibly delay some developments until the Mugello test so they can be as sure as possible that they work.


@amouzouris I agree completely mate.

[bhall]

No doubt their sidepod shape is also important, but I think this is more about making it easier to achieve the desired effect without overly compromising the flow to other areas of the car.

What do you mean "compromising the flow to other areas of the car"? I don't disagree that the McLaren layout appears to be the best at this point. I'm just not sure what you mean right there, since there's not a whole lot downstream.

Ferrari*, McLaren and Red Bull all have basically the same exhaust philsophy. They're trying to "seal" the diffuser by routing exhaust gas outboard so that it exits between the floor and the rear wheels. The exhaust housings are designed to preserve the Coanda effect of the air flow around the sidepods so that it can be routed down the middle to help force the exhaust outside. The only difference is how they go about achieving that goal.

Red Bull attempts to coax the exhaust to its destination; Ferrari tries to inject it; McLaren run a compromise of the two; and all three use air flow over the sidepods to keep the exhaust "attached," so to speak. I think it's reasonable to expect to see McLaren's solution tested on the Ferrari at the Mugello test.




* That is, their intended exhaust.

[Ferraripilot]

You just made his point in your post. Ok the W02 was good in the wet and decent(4th) in the dry. That doesn't mean their suspension was bad. That it needed to be changed. I concede they had degradation problems, but they had push rod front suspension.

I am definitely on the fence regarding Ferrari's push rod front end. The car thus far doesn't appear to be very quick in mechanical sectors but it's difficult to say whether that's a balance issue or simply a lack of understanding of the tires. One thing is for sure, the tires are catching some teams by surprise as I hear they are definitely a bit more 'spongy' this year when at operating temperature. The Ferrari looks twithcy like W02 did last year as Alonso is really fighting the thing through the turns.

[elFranZ]

I think it's reasonable to expect to see McLaren's solution tested on the Ferrari at the Mugello test.

I'm totally on this. First, it seems to be the best compromise up to now, second and most important, they won't have to radically modify the car's back.

[amouzouris]

I think it's reasonable to expect to see McLaren's solution tested on the Ferrari at the Mugello test.

I'm totally on this. First, it seems to be the best compromise up to now, second and most important, they won't have to radically modify the car's back.

i agree too! they could also have holes at the back of the bulges so that they won't have to redesign their cooling too much...

[xpensive]

I don't tend to subscribe to this opinion, but check out the article in AutoSprint:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1 ... l+pull+rod

Translate it with Bing if necessary

I can appreciate if certain posters on the thread got a little nervous from this article, Autosprint is a pretty credible source.

[bhall]

I'm thinking the writer read something xtraordinary on the Internet and just ran with it.

[elFranZ]

I don't tend to subscribe to this opinion, but check out the article in AutoSprint:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1 ... l+pull+rod

Translate it with Bing if necessary

I can appreciate if certain posters on the thread got a little nervous from this article, Autosprint is a pretty credible source.

To me, the only credible source is track. The car gets worse while tank is emptying, so problem is the rear section.

[FakeAlonso]

I don't tend to subscribe to this opinion, but check out the article in AutoSprint:

http://www.auto.it/autosprint/formula_1 ... l+pull+rod

Translate it with Bing if necessary

I can appreciate if certain posters on the thread got a little nervous from this article, Autosprint is a pretty credible source.

Xpensive we all know you hate the front pull rod suspension of Ferrari I red this article earlier today and it does not say there is a problem with the suspension but its says in bold ....... voices on the paddock are saying that maybe the front suspension is creating them problems....... but he did not push for it he just says voices or rumors. I think the author put fuel to the fire and you look happy.