COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

[Pierce89]

The only thing Chris Christie has ever saved is a spot in the buffet line. Then again, considering his "stature," that's no small feat. (I seriously wonder when was the last time that man saw his feet.)

As a former resident of the Garden State, I feel I'm allowed these statements.

Doesn't change the fact that he might well be the first man to get F1 in the U.S. since the craptastic fiasco that is the Indy road course.

[hairy_scotsman]

Remember that that's roughly what India and Korea looked like 1 month before FIA inspection date.

I assume you're joking, but just in case...Which inspection date? The one originally scheduled for the 1st week of August 2011, or the rescheduled date of September 1, 2011.

In either case, there is no comparison between COTA now and Buddh's progress 1 month prior to either of those dates.

There is all the details here http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthrea ... 714&page=2

Thanks. Very good thread.

Uh, no.

Just to join a few dots for the one who is not segedunum - here is India, exif data says Feb 28, 2011, almost to the day the same distance out from the race as Austin...
...
I think the Austin construction schedule calls for track paving to begin in August, so they're not behind on that...
...
I think the Austin construction schedule calls for track paving to begin in August, so they're not behind on that.
...
Also, as for the grandstand, the one in India is concrete, which means that they had to begin construction on it much, much earlier. Plus it seats 20,000 vs Austin's 9, so it's an impressive beast, to be sure.

- Scott Kahler was quoted by Dave Doolittle in the Statesman regarding when crews would begin laying the first layers of asphalt for the circuit surface. He said that would begin "around April".

- Just so we all know what we're working with regarding India & Austin dates, time remaining to completion, etc...On Feb 28, 2011, India had 242 days remaining until FP1. Austin currently has 235 days remaining until FP1.

- The COTA grandstand is well behind Buddh's grandstand at that point. The structure of Buddh's, as you say, much larger, concrete, 29000-seat GS was all but done with a week more remaining than is Austin's 9000-seat GS (reduced in size due to time and cost concerns). That they started it much earlier is irrelevant. What's important is that its structure was basically done at the point where Austin's is just getting underway. Will COTA get these buildings and the track done in time to race? They probably will. They should. The plan has been gutted to the point of emasculation. Is Austin behind India at a comparable point in time? Certainly.

Buddh Main GS...242 days til FP1:



Austin Main GS...237 days til FP1:



- Buddh's and Austin's pit buildings, aside from the lack of walls in Austin's, seem pretty close in development at this point.

[hairy_scotsman]

Below is a Google Earth shot of the Buddh Circuit from January 16, 2011. At this point, Buddh's Media Center, Medical Center, and Team Buildings are clearly visible So are the several of the 13 Restroom structures and/or their foundations, the Entrance Gate, and the Administration Buildings. You can also clearly see the outline of the cut of the entire circuit, the runoff areas, and circuit's perimeter access road.

The COTA track cut is not yet complete and the perimeter road cut is not yet complete. Runoffs are visible (but only 2 or 3 are clearly visible) from T18 to about T7. There are no buildings visible other than the Pit Building, Media Center, Medical Center, and the foundation & limited construction on the Main GS. There apparently are no Team Buildings, Restrooms, Ticket Office, or Admin Building any longer in the COTA plans.

Buddh Circuit...286 days from FP1:



Here is COTA on Feb 9, 2012...280 days from FP1:



Here, again is Friday's aerial shot of COTA (237 days from FP1):

[xpensive]

...
Also, as for the grandstand, the one in India is concrete, which means that they had to begin construction on it much, much earlier. Plus it seats 20,000 vs Austin's 9, so it's an impressive beast, to be sure.
...

A grandstand for 9 people, that's not too impressive, but I guess it might be enough for those poor sobs investing in PSLs?

[WhiteBlue]

Thank you HS for this detailed comparison with many data and points. I have never seen such an in depth comparison of different tracks under construction.

The upshot is apparently that COTA was in cash problems which caused them to loose a lot of time and scale back the project considerably. I would not bet any money that there will not be further cash problems based on the evidence of their current state of declaration to the FEC.

For the people of Austin, Texas and the USA I hope that the track will actually finish in time and that the problems seen so far will not be exceeded by further crisis. I wish them all that they have a wonderful race and good development of the circuit in the future. I remain convinced that Tavo Hellmunds vision for Austin was brilliant and hope with him that the GP 2012 will be a successful event.

I remain deeply sceptical of the current management team at CotA. The future will tell us in the end who did right and wrong in this project. There is very little point in stating different opinions about those things again and again. That's why I have kept silence for a time. I will only comment when I think there are substantial contributions or news.

[munudeges]

A nice and comprehensive deconstruction of where India's circuit was versus where Austin now, sadly, is. Anyone still think this is going to happen, especially given the resources and money India had and how close to deadlines they were?

Pup will be pleased.......

[bhall]

Doesn't change the fact that he might well be the first man to get F1 in the U.S. since the craptastic fiasco that is the Indy road course.

Don't let yourself be fooled, my friend. Tubby's just allowing people to assume he had something to do with it, because he wants to waddle for president in four years. The NJ F1 race is an entirely private venture that owes much more to its proximity to NYC than to any other factor.

[xpensive]

Slightly off topic, now that this thread has lost its lure, anyone dedicated enough to open a thread on NJ/Soprano GP?

Or is there already one and I just can't find it?

[zoro_f1]

this could be very interesting track. one of the best from herman tilke.

[FW17]

Do we can get streaming F1 (official) video (like kangaroo tv) on Ipad?

What is Phunware app going to do?

Or fanvision the only option http://www.fanvision.com/f1/event/2012- ... grand-prix

[Pup]

The only thing Chris Christie has ever saved is a spot in the buffet line.

[Pup]

Slightly off topic, now that this thread has lost its lure, anyone dedicated enough to open a thread on NJ/Soprano GP?

I believe the official name is F1 Jersey Shore.

[mx_tifoso]

Jersey...

[hairy_scotsman]

Mass gathering Permit, Emergency Planning, road worries surround COTA:

http://www.kvue.com/news/Travis-County- ... 13125.html

[Pup]

That kink in the pit building...that can't have been done on purpose. Can it?



Also, just like the grandstands, those team buildings are built of concrete, and had to be started much earlier. It doesn't mean that they're any closer to completion...



As an aside - and I'm only talking to those who are genuinely interested in the comparison of the two tracks - the construction methods they're using in those photos are really inefficient in terms of construction time and labor. That inefficiency is made up for in material cost, however, which is why you see things being built like this in countries like India, which has lots of cheap labor but high material cost/limited availability. The other reason is probably a less developed lumber and steel industry. And before anyone complains, I'm not saying that it's a worse way of building - it's better in some.

But when you use labor intensive methods, you have to consider diminishing returns and so individual structures can only progress so quickly. What you can do, which is what we see in the photos, is run more crews and do more structures simultaneously.

How is that relevant? Well, in India, they started multiple crews building all of the structures at the same time. In Austin, you see less of that, and more staging of the crews. In computer terms, it's parallel processing vs series. Which method is better depends on the resources at hand. For the team buildings, for example, if Ausin builds them like the medical center, they're probably a two-month project, where the India ones I'd bet were more like 6.

--

One more thing - HS, do you have inside info that they aren't doing the teams buildings? I see stub outs and fresh grading right where they're supposed to go, so...

Also, a lot of those buildings you're pointing to on the India aerial are really these temporary shelters for the crews. Yes, they live on the jobsite...



And this...

The structure of Buddh's, as you say, much larger, concrete, 29000-seat GS was all but done with a week more remaining than is Austin's 9000-seat GS (reduced in size due to time and cost concerns). That they started it much earlier is irrelevant. What's important is that its structure was basically done...

...tells me that you really don't need to be commenting on construction. The grandstand in India at that point had months upon months of work remaining. I guarantee you that the Austin grandstand has less work remaining now than that one had when those photos were taken.

On the other hand, when some alien race is excavating our planet millennia from now, they'll be able to dig up the India grandstands and they'll look pretty much as the do in the photos, where the Austin stands will be little more than flakes of iron oxide, if that. So, they've got that going for them.