Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

[FakeAlonso]

Alonso's look as being chased by Perez.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

It's just come to my attention that it seems Perez was using a dry engine map and Fernando was still on a wet engine map at the end of the race. So it seems that Fernando had something in reserve for Checo should he have tried to overtake the F2012. ))

[GrizzleBoy]

WhiteBlue, there's not a lot of point going over your previous post point by point although I thank you for having the courtesy to do so for me. There is going to be too much that we disagree on. So I would like to focus on three specific points that I believe are most relevant, I'm happy to respond on the rest if you feel it constructive.

First off is the blue flag rules. You point out that the three corner thing is a guide rather than a rule, but don't show the rule that says the driver should dive out of the way immediately. As with the flexing wings that Seb benefitted from last year where the written rule is stricter than the practical implementation, the way this rule is enforced is by giving a driver 3 corners to let the lapping car through. Sure they should make space as soon as is practical but we've seen some quite horrific blocks in the past that went unpunished. Vettel assumed that Karthikeyan would leap out of the way and lunged past from incredibly far behind. Which brings me on to the second point about just how far away Vettel was when he made the move.

You say that you don't agree with my interpretation that Vettel came from a long way back. Well here's the captures from the onboard video from his car.

Here are the cars entering into the two corners where the incident took place:


At the point NK lets Hamilton (I believe, and not Alonso) through - you can see the puff of water as he runs off the track to make room. You can also see just how far back Vettel is as they enter the corner and how NK would not have been able to see him at this point:


So here we are as Vettel hits the apex. You can see how much ground he's made up through the corner and therefore how much faster he's going.


The cars are alongside. Note how Vettel is actually steering left at this moment despite having the car straight. Presumably he's correcting a little bit of a rear end wobble, but it actually puts him closer to NK than he really needed to be and in my view contributes to the accident.


And here's the final shot of the car effectively straight and the steering straightish with possibly a very slight left turn.


From this point Vettel had the whole track width to his right and more than enough speed advantage to move to the right and give NK some room, but instead holds the line and expects NK to just disappear or continue running on the curbs. So basically it's a racing incident. NK could have waited a fraction of a second to avoid Vettel but at the same time Vettel treated him like dirt and ran unnecessarily close to him contributing massively to the accident.

Also you can see in that shot how Vettel isn't at all close to the car in front and should not have expected to have been let through in the same move. It was arrogance, he expected to just blast through and that NK would just leap out of the way. That disregard of his fellow driver and sense of entitlement when passing a back marker can be seen in his actions afterwards and subsequent comments. We didn't see that kind of reaction from Hamilton in Spa last year and Hamilton was rightly criticised for moving over on Kobayashi even though he thought he was past.

We've also seen this kind of move several times from Vettel where he cuts across another car way too early after making a move, assuming that the racing line is now his.

Finally with the blue flags it appears you don't have any additional information so I feel more confident in saying that the light on the dashboard doesn't have sub-corner accuracy. The system wouldn't have determined that Vettel was now close enough for the blue flag to be triggered - indeed as they enter the corner he was not close enough for a blue flag to be relevant, but was carrying so much more speed that he quickly caught NK - it was still flashing for Hamilton, but he had just been let past. NK had no obligation to let Vettel through immediately, nor could he reasonably have known how close he was except from the noise of his engine. That wouldn't have told him who the driver was or that he was about to cut across so close to him.

So at worst, in my humble opinion, this is a 50/50 racing incident where neither driver intended it to happen but Vettel had plenty of track and grip to have avoided it entirely by not running so closely to the lapped car.

Agreed on all counts.

And as Giblet said and as I have said previously, Vettel wouldn't have been in Karthikeyans mirrors.

Vettel was coming in towards Karthikeyan at a diagonal line, not from straight behind. That's where most blind spots are in cars where you have to actually turn your head to see what's there.

As far as Karthikeyan knew, someone had just shot straight across his car out of nowhere and according to Vettels line out of the corner, was about to squeeze him into the grass when he'd only just had/recovered from a moment seconds ago on the curbs to let someone else through.

He didn't know if or when Vettel was going to swing left (edit:I mean right) or if he was going to continue to the edge of the track.

As he said, he didn't want to go onto the grass (who would on a wet track, in an HRT?) and attempted to avoid him by going towards the center of the track so he wasn't squeezed off of it.

When you're going at those kinds of speeds on a wet track, you dont have time to think of the best option like we do, especially when it's a spur of the moment reaction to a surprise maneouver.

You see sparkling, wet grass to your left, a dry racing line to your right and a narrow road in front of you that is being closed off by a car that just whizzed past unexpectedly as you acclerate out of the corner.

[Giblet]

Alonso's look as being chased by Perez
[...]

He can't see Perez there. The mirrors look all but straight back. He is likely looking to the apex or through the corner.

Awesome pic thought.

[GrizzleBoy]

Alonso's look as being chased by Perez
[...]

He can't see Perez there. The mirrors look all but straight back. He is likely looking to the apex or through the corner.

Awesome pic thought.

Agreed, he's most likely looking at the apex/exit. You dont have time to be looking anywhere else tbh.

I love seeing pics of the drivers faces while turning or under heavy braking.

That onboard video of Vettel during 2011 Abu Dhabi qualifying is one of my favourite things to watch.

The camera is aimed at his face and you can see the masses of concentration as well as how the g forces throw them around in the cars.

[Shrieker]

The thing that really irks me, is that Sauber's 2nd place on pure merit is being devalued by armchairs.

If assumptions are true, they are a team who didn't want to win on this occasion because it'd threaten their engine supply. Time will tell the truth, but chances are no evidence will see the light of day like it did in crashgate.

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I've downloaded Sergio's off from another website, and watched it over and over again. I'll admit if it was a fix it's executed quite well, or it was a genuine off. But like his supporters claim, it doesn't look like he was in trouble of getting into the gravel at any point.

[FakeAlonso]

It's just come to my attention that it seems Perez was using a dry engine map and Fernando was still on a wet engine map at the end of the race. So it seems that Fernando had something in reserve for Checo should he have tried to overtake the F2012. ))

Well that is good to know. I am just curious how did get this info? I heard that Ferrari has good mapping for wet races but i did not know this detail.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

It's just come to my attention that it seems Perez was using a dry engine map and Fernando was still on a wet engine map at the end of the race. So it seems that Fernando had something in reserve for Checo should he have tried to overtake the F2012. ))

Well that is good to know. I am just curious how did get this info? I heard that Ferrari has good mapping for wet races but i did not know this detail.

Well right this second it's an assumption. But there is no reason why Fernando has his rain light on, and Checo doesn't. I think it has to do with the ECU and engine maps. In the video you can see Fernando's is on, Checo's is off.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATzOeO32yY[/youtube]

[MuseF1]

Very good Myurr.

I hope we can all put this to rest now.

[bhall]

If assumptions are true, they are a team who didn't want to win on this occasion because it'd threaten their engine supply. Time will tell the truth, but chances are no evidence will see the light of day like it did in crashgate.

That sounds an awful lot like "guilty until proven innocent."

[FakeAlonso]

It's just come to my attention that it seems Perez was using a dry engine map and Fernando was still on a wet engine map at the end of the race. So it seems that Fernando had something in reserve for Checo should he have tried to overtake the F2012. ))

Well that is good to know. I am just curious how did get this info? I heard that Ferrari has good mapping for wet races but i did not know this detail.

Well right this second it's an assumption. But there is no reason why Fernando has his rain light on, and Checo doesn't. I think it has to do with the ECU and engine maps. In the video you can see Fernando's is on, Checo's is off.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATzOeO32yY[/youtube]

Well done Crucial. I was wondering during the race why Alonso had is rain light still on when and Perez no. Maybe he was waiting for to make a surprise to Checo. Good for Checo, we saw what happened to Maldonado in Melbourne.

[Giblet]

Time has alrady told the truth. It was a very short time and it has already passed.

Nobody can convince me that Perez dive bombed off the track. Like I said earlier, he would 'miss a shift' or go into 'fuel saving mode'. He was not going to risk his race to let Alonso win.

This is why it is untrue. There is no reason, unless someone can point one out, that he would risk his race by divebombing off the track on purpose.

No race driver would do that. Even if there was a pre-existing order, there was not a pre-agreed upon order for Perez....

.....to divebomb off the track.

Say it for effect out loud even

[FakeAlonso]

Time has alrady told the truth. It was a very short time and it has already passed.

Nobody can convince me that Perez dive bombed off the track. Like I said earlier, he would 'miss a shift' or go into 'fuel saving mode'. He was not going to risk his race to let Alonso win.

This is why it is untrue. There is no reason, unless someone can point one out, that he would risk his race by divebombing off the track on purpose.

No race driver would do that. Even if there was a pre-existing order, there was not a pre-agreed upon order for Perez....

.....to divebomb off the track.

Say it for effect out loud even

If Perez received an order from the team it should have been like this " Checo Fernando is faster than you, can you confirm you understood this message"?

[flynfrog]

I originally had a bunch of reasons why a conspiracy theory is ridiculous and doesnt make sense, which I got bored of and deleted. .......
snip..

Great post =D> A logical well thought post in a race thread. More post like this please

[Shrieker]

If assumptions are true, they are a team who didn't want to win on this occasion because it'd threaten their engine supply. Time will tell the truth, but chances are no evidence will see the light of day like it did in crashgate.

That sounds an awful lot like "guilty until proven innocent."

Ferrari have brought this upon themselves as a fellow poster has pointed out. Technically speaking, of course they're innocent until proven guilty