Diffuser blowing with turbos in 2014 ala 2011

[amouzouris]

I was thinking...in 2014 when the new V6 turbo engine era will start...will it be possible to blow the diffuser again ala 2011 but this time not with exhaust gases but with compressed air from the turbo...what i mean is...will teams be allowed to have outlets controlled by valves coming out of the air exiting the compressor part of the turbo and blowing the diffuser...the teams would have to modify their engines maps to run without or with little effect from the turbo at slow speeds where they r gonna exit tight corners and diffuser blowing would be most usefull...at those low speed the power from the turbo might not be needed as the drivers will not be full throttle anyway...is it possible to also use energy from the HERS system to spool the turbo and further enhance the diffuser blowing...

at the beginning i was thinking about modifying the waste-gate so at low speeds it would use exhaust gases routed differently towards the diffuser instead of the main exhaust exit...but then i thought that whatever way they present this to the FIA those exits would be exhaust exits as they route exhaust gases and the FIA would not approve...

but what about the first idea? would it be legal and/or beneficial??

[spinmastermic]

Interesting, but with only one exhaust outlet from the turbo I can only see the teams blowing the rear wing.

[amouzouris]

Interesting, but with only one exhaust outlet from the turbo I can only see the teams blowing the rear wing.

yes..that's what i thought..but what i am really asking is if the can blow the diffuser with the compressed turbo air not exhaust flow!!

[spinmastermic]

Maybe they can blow the 15cm centre section that the W03 is exploiting this year.

[WhiteBlue]

AFAIK the ban on blown diffusors was not for just one year but for the foreseeable future. So wherever you take exhaust gasses from it would be illegal.

[kilcoo316]

If you had a turbo that was extremely slow to spool up or down (i.e. consistent-ish rotational speed through corners) then you could have a form of "cold blowing" by running it straight through the engine.

The turbo would need an extremely large rotational inertia though, so it wouldn't be responsive to throttle, but would be relatively highly spun at throttle pickup anyway.


Dunno whether that would work vs. a conventional low inertia turbo.

[raymondu999]

Yeah I brought this up in the turbo thread too: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9259&p=300552&hilit=+valve#p300552

I wonder. With the ban on OT-EBD maps now; how possible would it be; when these 1.6L engines come out; to work around that?

Would it be possible for example; to substitute it with the pressure blow-off valve?

[amouzouris]

If you had a turbo that was extremely slow to spool up or down (i.e. consistent-ish rotational speed through corners) then you could have a form of "cold blowing" by running it straight through the engine.

The turbo would need an extremely large rotational inertia though, so it wouldn't be responsive to throttle, but would be relatively highly spun at throttle pickup anyway.


Dunno whether that would work vs. a conventional low inertia turbo.

yes..that would be a problem...would they be allowed to spool the turbo using the energy from the HERS system thus not using a high inertia turbo?

[spinmastermic]

AFAIK the ban on blown diffusors was not for just one year but for the foreseeable future. So wherever you take exhaust gasses from it would be illegal.

I meant blowing the gap between the rear crash structure and the top of the diffuser.

[bigpat]

As mentioned above, the new rules prohibit the use of the engine for any aerodynamic benefit. So diverting air from the compressor housing would be frowned upon. Good idea though!!! =D>

In any case a high inertia turbo is NEVER a good thing, the lag would be horrendous. All turbo applications look for quick spooling of the turbo. Nowadays there are off the shelf anti-lag systems available, but the excess fuel they use might mitigate against their adoption in F1??? Don't know.....

Also the problem with post compressor exhaust is that it is relatively low in the speed and energy, having been used to turn the turbine wheel in the exhaust. The external wastegate exhaust gas is better in this regard...

[godlameroso]

I was thinking...in 2014 when the new V6 turbo engine era will start...will it be possible to blow the diffuser again ala 2011 but this time not with exhaust gases but with compressed air from the turbo...what i mean is...will teams be allowed to have outlets controlled by valves coming out of the air exiting the compressor part of the turbo and blowing the diffuser...the teams would have to modify their engines maps to run without or with little effect from the turbo at slow speeds where they r gonna exit tight corners and diffuser blowing would be most usefull...at those low speed the power from the turbo might not be needed as the drivers will not be full throttle anyway...is it possible to also use energy from the HERS system to spool the turbo and further enhance the diffuser blowing...

at the beginning i was thinking about modifying the waste-gate so at low speeds it would use exhaust gases routed differently towards the diffuser instead of the main exhaust exit...but then i thought that whatever way they present this to the FIA those exits would be exhaust exits as they route exhaust gases and the FIA would not approve...

but what about the first idea? would it be legal and/or beneficial??

I could see teams venting the wastegates in such a manner, whether it will be legal remains to be seen