Mercedes AMG F1 Team 2012

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think dragonfly is right.

The 2 are linked. If you have an aero deficit, you will work the tyres harder. Mercedes W03 is an evolved step of the W02, which had a big aero deficit.
Since then we have seen the introduction of the triple element front wing, along with the clever drs duct and extended wheelbase.
And it works, but only over a single lap.

My opinion is that Mercedes need to adopt the aggressive exhausts simply because the gain, however small, would still yield a decent return on aero points and critically, tyre degradation.

Which 2 teams appear to have very good tyre management? Sauber and Red Bull. It's possibly coincidence, however I don't think so.
Adopt an agressive exhaust, gain more DF points in the wind tunnel, and let's see.

Not much else they can do this year.

[Cocles]

http://www.mercedes-amg-f1.com/en/#/s/n ... e-analysis

[Pierce89]

Ask yourselves this friends, how many cars over the years have consistently qualified very well and not maintained that pace the following day during the race? The answer is none. Schumacher is confident with the car as is the rest of the team, the issue is minor and will be easily sorted.

Mark Webber at Jag rings a bell. Earlier in his career, Mark had a bit of a rep for qualifying pig cars outrageously high up the grid.

[Pierce89]

Perhaps the problem is really what marcush describes, Mercedes have two primadonna drivers who needs to have their car xactly to their liking, none of them is capable of taking a recalcitrant car by the scruff of its neck and just throw it around?

Like that Spanish fella did the other weekend, what's his name again?

Nico whpped the hell out of the 2010 and 2011 Nercs. I think Merc has gone all out to get a car to Micheal's liking, leaving Nico out in the cold.

[ArchAngel]

Circumstances and less-than-ideal track conditions have made the W03 look a lot worse than it is. Fact is, a car that can challenge for top 3 spots in qualifying can't be a complete dog. Race incidents denied both drivers the chance to bring home points in Melbourne, while rain & Romain threw a spanner on what should've been a stronger showing in Sepang. The team has just been ridiculously unlucky that way. Having said that, it's still pretty obvious that even without the incidents & rain, both drivers would've been hard-pressed to finish the race without losing positions, much less gain places.

We'll never know if the suspension & setup work they did in Sepang would've been enough to keep the W03 competitive throughout a dry race. Still, the car's atrocious performance on inters in the wet strongly suggests that they still would've struggled with tyre issues on dry track, although perhaps much less than in Melbourne.

A revised exhaust solution probably won't be available 'til the circus goes back to Europe. Can anything else be done from now 'til China, aside from continuing with suspension & setup fine-tuning? Perhaps some modular aero bits (monkey seat, brake ducts, etc) for a few quick-&-dirty rear DF points?

[prince]

It is my feeling that, the work on exhaust must be in full swing and would have started as early as the winter tests. Once, Merc team saw exhaust benefits in winter tests on other cars (obviously the engineers who are hands-on are much smarter than the people on our forums), they must have already started putting thoughts into it. Europe timeline could be an expected one, but i wouldn't be surprised to see one in Bahrain.

I also feel that, mechanically the car is so good that, it performed very well in qualifying, despite having tyre issues. The tyre issues became more obvious in race. As the car was so light on fuel in qualifying, coupled with an F-duct advantage, it masked the tyre problems. If their solution (whatever it is and whenever it is) can manage to put the tyres in optimum working temperature, we can see the performance improvement both in qualifying and race.

Lot of people are complaining about lack of traction and downforce in slow corners, which is true. But that problem might again be related to tyre temperature as the tyres are not performing as well as they should have been, had they been in the right window.

[Ferraripilot]

Designing a Mclaren-type exh solution for W03 would not be brain surgery from the outward appearance of the system anyway. W03 already has a removable panel around their exhaust system we saw them exchange with gills for Malaysia use. I suppose that panel alone could be redesigned along with a revised exhaust manifold to a similar Mclaren solution without too much fuss. And engine mapping would essentially be the same so I wouldn't see any problems with that.

I have heard recently that the Mercedes engine 'hot blowing' inherent to the engines operation travels at a greater velocity than cold blowing ever did. This is probably why the Mclaren is so much quicker than Red Bull who while are blowing their diffuser just don't have near the velocity the Mercedes engines are able to produce.


Before I really drop the hammer on being sold on the Mclaren solution though, I really want to see W03 put its best foot forward during a race and see how it comes out. We might all be surprised.

[Maelstrom]

Perhaps the problem is really what marcush describes, Mercedes have two primadonna drivers who needs to have their car xactly to their liking, none of them is capable of taking a recalcitrant car by the scruff of its neck and just throw it around?

Like that Spanish fella did the other weekend, what's his name again?

Nico whpped the hell out of the 2010 and 2011 Nercs. I think Merc has gone all out to get a car to Micheal's liking, leaving Nico out in the cold.

I don't understand why you would say this when Nico himself has had only positive things to say about the car. IIRC he had said that it had the feel of a front runner. He also liked the handling and said that it was a definate step up.

Suddenly two races they have some problems and its all due to Michael?

[Ferraripilot]

Suddenly two races they have some problems and its all due to Michael?

Definitely not due to Michael. It's the same situation with Vettel and Webber right now. Red Bull would never design a car their star driver doesn't like, it's just a set up issue and a major change for Vettel to get used to. Also, I believe Mark is getting on better with these tires than last years.

[marcush.]

sorry i don´t get the logic in this accusation.A team that is unable to master the tyres supplied in comparable time to its competitors can only be at a loss to design a car more suited to a specific driver .to optimise a set of tools is one thing but to lay a foundation more suited to one or another driver seems to be quite a task.
Or :Schumacher was plain better in describing his issues with w01 and w02 and these were adressed ?

[Maelstrom]

sorry i don´t get the logic in this accusation.A team that is unable to master the tyres supplied in comparable time to its competitors can only be at a loss to design a car more suited to a specific driver .to optimise a set of tools is one thing but to lay a foundation more suited to one or another driver seems to be quite a task.
Or :Schumacher was plain better in describing his issues with w01 and w02 and these were adressed ?

Schumacher might not even be racing next year. Rosberg looks to be their longterm driver. Why would Merc be so biased against Rosberg? It would make no sense at all.

[marcush.]

+1 still Mercedes wants Schumacher to win as this would be the same as holding the key to fort knox in terms of marketing value..

[Maelstrom]

+1 still Mercedes wants Schumacher to win as this would be the same as holding the key to fort knox in terms of marketing value..

My point is that both cars were strong in qualifying in both races. Nico apparently made some mistakes so he was not as strong as Michael but they were good performances. Race pace was off for both cars. So its not like Michael is finding it any easier than Nico. If it wasn't for that last minute DNF he'd be out of the points too.

Making a statement that they ave customised a car for Michael and left Nico out in the 'cold' is ridiculous. What proof is there of such a thing?

Also Mercedes would be happier if they get more points from both cars and thus a better position in the WCC rather than Michael getting a better car and hoping he might be staying on. Lets be honest there's almost no chance for a WDC title for him this year.

[raymondu999]

I still think maybe Nico, now tasting his first frontrunning car (one that could challenge for the to of top spots on merit) is grtting almost somewhat... Starstruck. As someone else in another thread put it, he has ACCS (almost competitive car syndrome)

He's overdriving because he feels you right on the edge of making the top spot, which is leading to him making mistakes

[marcush.]

excuse me but Schumacher did not enjoy clean races and I don´t know if Schumnacher would have experienced the same fate as Rosberg if he did not have that gearbox or the coming together with grosjean..
to me the car simply suits michaels driving better because it responds to being pushed when it was just giving up on being squeezed in2010 and 11.
so being precise and NOT over 100% rewarded Rosberg until now but now it´s the opposite the car does not work this way anymore.
paralells to Ferrari when Massa could not make the hard tyres work when alonso was able to push push push .