Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[quixpeed]

Are we certain this is the source of the primary flow that goes forward? I have found an actual test on a flush hole used on an aircraft fuselage that indicates the pressure just inside such an opening like this is ambient. I know there is high pressure in this are, but this hole very close to the trailing edge where the pressure should drop with the DRS flap up. It is hard to understand why the flow would want to enter the hole. This is certainly not a forward facing duct that we have seen in years past.

Could this be a rearward facing NACA duct? It is not clear that the floor of the hole has the correct shape. This would mean the duct is trying to draw flow out.

Brian

.

i've been following on most of the discussion about the merc W-Duct... and i have an opinion... this duct as you mentioned could blow air or a be release valve, instead of being an intake point, my point is, what if the W03 has inlet ducks bellow its bodywork or from the front nosecone air flows backwards to this flap operated holes, if this is the case, the whole principle could be as simple as vacuuming the air from the bottom of the car or its nose area, to the very low pressure zone where the rear flap opens. as the flap opens the air gets very high speed plus significant air pressure loss that creates vacuum, in which this vacuum of air can be utilized to reduce drag and air pressure over certain areas of the cars body. from that point the car becomes very thin through the air ...

i hope the idea is clear, and i got this right ...

[maestro272]

Are we certain this is the source of the primary flow that goes forward? I have found an actual test on a flush hole used on an aircraft fuselage that indicates the pressure just inside such an opening like this is ambient. I know there is high pressure in this are, but this hole very close to the trailing edge where the pressure should drop with the DRS flap up. It is hard to understand why the flow would want to enter the hole. This is certainly not a forward facing duct that we have seen in years past.

Could this be a rearward facing NACA duct? It is not clear that the floor of the hole has the correct shape. This would mean the duct is trying to draw flow out.

Brian

.

i've been following on most of the discussion about the merc W-Duct... and i have an opinion... this duct as you mentioned could blow air or a be release valve, instead of being an intake point, my point is, what if the W03 has inlet ducks bellow its bodywork or from the front nosecone air flows backwards to this flap operated holes, if this is the case, the whole principle could be as simple as vacuuming the air from the bottom of the car or its nose area, to the very low pressure zone where the rear flap opens. as the flap opens the air gets very high speed plus significant air pressure loss that creates vacuum, in which this vacuum of air can be utilized to reduce drag and air pressure over certain areas of the cars body. from that point the car becomes very thin through the air ...

i hope the idea is clear, and i got this right ...

I got your idea but would it be legal? I think holes in the floor are not permitted. Or could it be that only permanent holes are not permitted and when DRS opens, somewhere in the floor opens 1 or 2 small holes that suck air through the car and out..when DRS closes, holes close too. I hope it's clear

[blokkie]

A bit thesame idea like Sauber ?

Only on the sauber it's entry and exit is on the nose itself .

What you are saying is that the entry would be in the front-wing to vacuum the air from there and send it to the wholes in the rear-wing when DRS is open.

[Darknight]

What if Merc never used the system to its full extent during the first 2 races. It seems that even though Charlie W okayed it preseason, it required another ok from him and some teams want to protest the system. Maybe Merc is laying low hoping the protest fails and then they can unleash the system.

Wishful thinking...

[elf341]

I think they devoted so much resources to the qualifying advantage because they are trying to replicate what appears to have been Newey's philosophy of building a great qualifier, starting from the front row and escaping quickly out of DRS where one can generally manage the race much better with clean air putting the car in it's optimal configuration.

Of course, this idea only really works if you can qualify on the front row. They already did have exceedingly good starts, so you might suspect that actually they thought they had a car that was decent enough anyway for P4 without the Fduct, and that they thought would give them the huge edge to be P1-P2 with it. As it turned out, McLaren may have thrown a spanner in the works with what seems to be an incredibly quick qualifier too, seemingly without an Fduct.

Interestingly, with Newey's RB8 not apparently another in his great qualifer lineage, it will be interesting to see how they fare this year. Certainly, you get the impression that McLaren optimize aggressively assuming dirty air, given their "through the trenches" battle and advancement for the last 3 years.

[Ferraripilot]

W03 definitely has good mechanical grip. Look how early Michael is on the throttle out of 1 and 2, and how steady in general the car is. Very nice lap and he is not fighting the car nearly as much as W02, if at all for that matter.

http://www.formula1.com/video/onboard/

[aral]

What if Merc never used the system to its full extent during the first 2 races. It seems that even though Charlie W okayed it preseason, it required another ok from him and some teams want to protest the system. Maybe Merc is laying low hoping the protest fails and then they can unleash the system.

Wishful thinking...

It can only be used in qualifying, or when attempting a pass in the race.
They had it in quali, and got a good time. When the race came, it was useless and the true race pace became obvious. What is the point of a grid position , if you only go backwards after that?

[retpog55]

I think that in W03 they have prioritized coke-bottle and narrow tidy rear-end & side-pods. i think what they have traded for is CoG in the main bulk lower airbox area. Cant find any good pics but my feeling is that all the better performing cars have tried to get their components as low as possible and traded their narrow tidy coke-bottle rear-end for a bit wider and instead very tight lower airbox area.





I belive that the CoG trade of gives good aero but might give trouble if the layout/position of fueltank somehow is compromised to achive the result.

If you look at the brown line (sorry i dont know the technical name for it) running across the rear of each car, it is clear that Mercedes is putting more stress on its rear than the more balanced Mclaren and Sauber. Those two teams are running stiffer rear setups therefore spreading the weight more evenly over the whole car. The COG i believe is a cause for the rear tyre issues on the Mercedes and cant see how they would get round it easily.

[Maelstrom]

W03 definitely has good mechanical grip. Look how early Michael is on the throttle out of 1 and 2, and how steady in general the car is. Very nice lap and he is not fighting the car nearly as much as W02, if at all for that matter.

http://www.formula1.com/video/onboard/

I'm really looking forward to seeing a full race where Michael isn't hampered by problems or a racing incident. If they manage to get on top of the tyre issue i'd love to see a glimpse of what the car can actually do. I think we haven't seen that yet. The car was looking a lot more promising in testing.

[Lycoming]

That brown line is the driveshaft. THe fact that its more angled on the merc does not necessarily tell you anything; its possible that they have packaged their differential in such a way that the driveshafts exit at a lower point. It does not necessarily tell you anything about the loads or stresses on the rear.

Although, having it angled like that does increase transmission losses.

[hardingfv32]

[ it is clear that Mercedes is putting more stress on its rear than the more balanced Mclaren and Sauber.

Not so fast... How about finding photos of the cars in the same turn, same session and at racing speeds before making such statements?

Brian

[hardingfv32]

Although, having it angled like that does increase transmission losses.

You think? What is with Williams high angle axle design then? Maybe things have changed.

Brian

[quixpeed]

Are we certain this is the source of the primary flow that goes forward? I have found an actual test on a flush hole used on an aircraft fuselage that indicates the pressure just inside such an opening like this is ambient. I know there is high pressure in this are, but this hole very close to the trailing edge where the pressure should drop with the DRS flap up. It is hard to understand why the flow would want to enter the hole. This is certainly not a forward facing duct that we have seen in years past.

Could this be a rearward facing NACA duct? It is not clear that the floor of the hole has the correct shape. This would mean the duct is trying to draw flow out.

Brian

.

i've been following on most of the discussion about the merc W-Duct... and i have an opinion... this duct as you mentioned could blow air or a be release valve, instead of being an intake point, my point is, what if the W03 has inlet ducks bellow its bodywork or from the front nosecone air flows backwards to this flap operated holes, if this is the case, the whole principle could be as simple as vacuuming the air from the bottom of the car or its nose area, to the very low pressure zone where the rear flap opens. as the flap opens the air gets very high speed plus significant air pressure loss that creates vacuum, in which this vacuum of air can be utilized to reduce drag and air pressure over certain areas of the cars body. from that point the car becomes very thin through the air ...

i hope the idea is clear, and i got this right ...

I got your idea but would it be legal? I think holes in the floor are not permitted. Or could it be that only permanent holes are not permitted and when DRS opens, somewhere in the floor opens 1 or 2 small holes that suck air through the car and out..when DRS closes, holes close too. I hope it's clear

the only reason i qouted your post is that, i think as much as u do, that this DRS hole is an outlet of air and NOT inlet, the whereabouts of the legality is in the hands of charlie for sure, but i was trying to analyze the function of the technology. as i said its all about reducing the effect of air pressure and its frictional impact on the cars body... by terbulating air or reduce its direct flowing pressure around the cars body, starting from the nose going all where is possible. and the only way is by creating vacuum of air areas and channeling pressured air to it.

beside that image previously of the 2 inlet tubes in the front section of the nose, those ducts are not usually placed there?!?!?

As for the bottom of the car details, i remember in one video on youtube of MSC being very defenses towards photographers to take any shots of the cars bottom... like never shoot at all, he seemed very worried.

after all of course its all speculation from everybody's part to figure out what is it exactly the trick of the MGP technology.

[hardingfv32]

i think as much as u do, that this DRS hole is an outlet of air and NOT inlet

I doubt you are going to be able to bleed flow from the front wing slots. They are in one of the lowest pressure area of the whole front end. I do not think the DRS hole pressure is going to be able to get below the current pressure at the FW slots.

There is the more fundamental issue of this being the best use of the FW slots. Blowing the slots is considered more traditional.

Brian

[Lycoming]

Although, having it angled like that does increase transmission losses.

You think? What is with Williams high angle axle design then? Maybe things have changed.

Brian

having driveshaft on an angle will definitely result in some notable transmission losses, but obviously williams believed at the time that they minimized the losses and the aero gains were worth it. With this sort of thing its kind of hard to tell whether you truly gain anything. Have they reverted to a more conventional design this year?