Ferrari F2012

[hardingfv32]

straight line speed is a function of drag coefficient times crosssection and how you gear the toy as there is a rpm limit as you may run out of revs rising your terminal speed ,something we saw last year with DRS.
Of course the exit speed and when you can feed full throttle has huge influence on trap speeds ...take your choice :mrgreen:

As marcush has stated there are in this stated case two possible reasons for a lack of performance. How do you propose a solution without knowing the correct issue?

Brian

[hardingfv32]

chief?

Now, now, Is that really necessary?

Brian

[amouzouris]

whats not really necessary is people being too arrogant to even consider they might be wrong and instead think they know it all...anyway...the ferrari isn't very draggy compared to red bull...but it is much more draggy i think compared to previous years..sorting their exhaust will probably give them a little higher top speed because of a better corner exit onto the straights...so despite their long acer ducts which probably cause a lot of surface friction inducing the f2012's drag...the rest of the car is probably ok in terms of efficiency..what do you think?

[bhall]

Now, now, Is that really necessary?

Is it any of your concern?

Scarbs mentioned a potential problem with the front wing end plates. I generally trust his reporting, but that doesn't necessarily mean I know what he's talking about in this case. Can anyone shed some light on this matter?

Are they not getting an effective outwash from their design?

[amouzouris]

Scarbs mentioned a potential problem with the front wing end plates. I generally trust his reporting, but that doesn't necessarily mean I know what he's talking about in this case. Can anyone shed some light on this matter?

Are they not getting an effective outwash from their design?

i think scarbs said it has something to do with the re-profiled pirellis...which would further explain their pace with the wets and inters as those tires were not re-profiled...

[lombers]

Let's try this another way, when McLaren opted for that lower and more tasteful nose on the MP4-27, any of you tifosi who
thinks they didn't consider a pull-rod, that they were too ignorant, arrogant or plain stupid to do that?

Of course the most resourceful team in F1 considered that option, but even with the lower nose they went with the push-rod,
when Ferrari found the pull-rod advantageous even with the highest nose in the pit-lane?

One of them got it wrong, I wonder who?

I'm sorry but this is a poor comparison to make.

The nose designs are completely different between these two cars. As has been stated by Scarbs one of the main reasons he thinks Ferrari went with a pull rod was for a lower CofG with their high nose design.

The McLaren nose has a noticeably lower profile and therefore doesn't need to make substantial changes to achieve their lower CofG requirements. I'm no suspension expert, but it does appear that with a lower nose profile like the McLaren the angles required to achieve pull rod at the front might not be feasible for the same performance.

[hardingfv32]

...anyway...the ferrari isn't very draggy compared to red bull...but it is much more draggy i think compared to previous years..

How can you support this opinion without data from Ferrari? And then how do you compare it to other cars without those car's supporting data.

Brian

[bhall]

[This post has taken its place among the other satellites.]

[Crucial_Xtreme]

...anyway...the ferrari isn't very draggy compared to red bull...but it is much more draggy i think compared to previous years..

How can you support this opinion without data from Ferrari? And then how do you compare it to other cars without those car's supporting data.

Brian

Here is an analysis from a former Ferrari Engineer, Luigi Mazzola. He's very knowledgeable and compares Efficiency = Cl/Cd. Here is part of the analysis(rough translation from Italian to English0, with Wintax the same telemetry used by F1 teams:


I often hear talk of DRS, the Mercedes F-Duct and maximum speeds of various vehicles. I am convinced of all to tell you about it when I read the interview of his friend Stefano Domenicali identified an area in the top speed of improvement of the F2012. When - around mid-season - a technical director and his team are preparing to work on the new car, one of the first things you must do is to fix a particular project very precise: the drag of the car in a basic aerodynamic configuration . Let me explain: the designer must also determine what will be the coefficient (Cd = drag coefficient) of maximum aerodynamic penetration willing to pay then to get some downforce (Cl = lift coefficient) . In doing so requires what will be the maximum speed of his car in the basic aerodynamic configuration (I omit to speak of Monza and Spa in need of a separate labor and specific).

Once you set the CD will work in the wind tunnel to try to get the most possible load (Cl) studying areas such as the slide, the front wing, brake air intakes, different splitters, etc.. while maintaining the value of Cd constant. From dear friends who have also worked with Red Bull know that Adrian Newey will not start from the CD but the car's aerodynamic efficiency , which is none other that the relationship between Cl and Cd (Efficiency = Cl / Cd ) . This approach does not move much the concept I'm trying to describe. Certainly, efficiency is the key parameter of a F1 car, because it expresses the concept of what is gained in terms of downforce: the CL to be seen as a PROFIT in any company, the Cd to be seen as COST . Fix Cd equiavale to determine the maximum speed of the basic aerodynamic configuration of the car.
Let's take the speed made ​​by McLaren, Lotus, Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari in Malaysia is not active with DRS DRS and put them in a table:



image via BlogF1.it

He goes into further detail with deltas & such and while not absolutely concrete with direct data from the teams, I think a good comparison of drag between cars can be made, at least for the Malaysian GP.

Here is the link to the analysis--> http://www.blogf1.it/2012/03/28/focus-g ... strategie/

I also think Amouzouris is correct that the F2012 isn't draggy compared to the RB8 but the RB8 is more efficient as the F2012 has more Cd for it's Cl in comparison. I think this analysis points in that direction.

[Lycoming]

Since the car can handle high speed corners well ..... what gives on their pathetic straight line speed?

Can it be as simple as they are running more wing?

Brian

could be part of it. Their front wing endplate design also seems curiously basic. I suspect that has something to do with it, working air around the front tyre is absolutely critical.

Also, I should note that, as I've said several times, particularly in the case of the front, the advantage that you gain from pullrod or pushrod is very small. At the rear, pullrod gives you hugely improved packaging compared to the front, where potential gains (and losses) are very small. I would not take any teams decision to run or not run it to vindicate either concept. Personally I don't feel the gains are worth it, but the margins in this case are simply not comparable to, say, the exhausts.

[Jersey Tom]

Bear in mind trap speed is a function of corner exit speed, as well as engine power and drag.

[hardingfv32]

Here is an analysis from a former Ferrari Engineer, Luigi Mazzola.

Thanks, very good. While personal opinion is fine, I am always looking for something a little more substantial. This is great in that regard.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

As has been stated by Scarbs one of the main reasons he thinks Ferrari went with a pull rod was for a lower CofG with their high nose design.

While I know EVERYTHING counts in F1, please note we are talking about moving the rocker and torsion bar assembly that weighs about 300 grams/10.4 oz. a few mm's. This is not going to be much in the way of weight transfer.

This nose is not any higher than last year, why the concern this year?

Brian

[Hail22]

A business colleague of mine informed me that he has heard a Formula 1 car on the Maranello circuit and mentioned the entire boundary of the track was covered with black tarpolan to prevent people seeing in.

So an F1 car on the Maranello circuit, has to be the F10 correct? If so what the hell are they doing?

I will treat it with a grain of salt, however for him to email me at 2:35 AM (San Marino local time) he must think something sketchy is going on...

[Crucial_Xtreme]

A business colleague of mine informed me that he has heard a Formula 1 car on the Maranello circuit and mentioned the entire boundary of the track was covered with black tarpolan to prevent people seeing in.

So an F1 car on the Maranello circuit, has to be the F10 correct? If so what the hell are they doing?

I will treat it with a grain of salt, however for him to email me at 2:35 AM (San Marino local time) he must think something sketchy is going on...

Are you saying he's heard it at 2:35am?? Or saying it happened this afternoon?