Ferrari F2012

[xpensive]

If Ferrari has produced an F2012-B with push-rod front in six weeks, it will surely be tested, Montezuma will find a way.

No matter if it's a new or modified tub, crash-tested or not, he's not going to watch Alonso fighting it out with Saubers
and Toro Rossos every second weekend for the rest of the year if he can help it. I'm certain MrE will see it the same way.

[bhall]

I think the only reasonable assumption is that such testing could be carried out for front wing analysis, but not much else, because that's the component least affected by differences between the F10 and F2012.

As "luck" would have it, though, the F2012 apparently has a problem with its front wing end plates. So, who knows?

That said, the team would have to be extremely cautious when interpreting the data. A front wing that's brilliant for the F2012 may cause a poor reaction on the F10. Moreover, I'm not entirely sold on the notion that any testing of this nature would be helpful. It seems the Scuderia has a tendency to experience correlation problems between the wind tunnel, CFD and track testing. I'm not sure it's a good idea to introduce a completely different car to that equation as well.

[xpensive]

...
Xpensive is wrong about testing a push rod setup, but not wrong about getting something new on the car tested.
...

That's mighty generous of you X2, but I don't think I'm in the wrong on the first part either, the F2012-B has most probably been on the CAD-screens at Maranello for weeks, including the push-rod.

[siskue2005]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvW6lmolxyE[/youtube]

There is something different with the nose
its completely different from F10
anybody with me?

EDIT: i think its the same

[raymondu999]

Checks out IMO. The F10 always had a V-nose

[omar2726]

Seems like a circular argument [pullrod vs pushrod], but doesn't it seem that going back to pushrod would just entail more problems? If it is true that they have problems with the FW end plates, this means that they would have to fix the airflow from the FWEP and around the tyres, PLUS the airflow that passes through the suspension arms (because they changed to pushrod)? And add this to all the problems regarding sealing the diffuser and the exhaust gas flow. Seems like designing a whole new aerodynamic package to me.

If it's true, and I would like to think it is, that their mechanical grip is sound, then why fix something that's not exactly broken? As many of us here agree that kinematically, pushrod and pullrod are just the same.

Please correct me if I made any mistakes, I'm not an aero guy.

[Lycoming]

The pickup points are completely different... I don't see how they can get away with pushrods without a new tub.

[Jersey Tom]

The pickup points are completely different... I don't see how they can get away with pushrods without a new tub.

Completely agree. Pickup points and internal component layout. Carbon tub isn't exactly something you can weld some tabs onto and move things around.

Besides - more to the point - it's just not an issue. I'm honestly quite surprised everyone pays so much attention to the pull rod and not to the control arms themselves.

[xpensive]

The pickup points are completely different... I don't see how they can get away with pushrods without a new tub.

I would think that depends a bit on if you plan to relocate the wishbones as well, otherwise I guess you need a new upright,
push-rod and room for relocating springs/dampers, as well as pick-up points for the latter, but that could surely be done?

[marcush.]

question is :

if you venture for some weird geometry and outlandish design -
how did you get all sennior decisionmakers to give the go ahead?
wouldn´t it be useful and NORMAL to have a fallback solution if things do not work out as planned? It is well possible to design the tub to take both suspension actuation layouts methinks -but you have to allow for it from day one.

Ferraris layout is living on track variation in bump to provide ANY damper/spring movement so they are very much tied with what they have in terms of scrub.
Question is is scrub helping the pirelli tyre to perform or is it killing them ? Scrub seems to work quite well at low ambient temperatures to get heat in the tyre so is it working the carcass more than the compound ? sure it is something you cannot influence as you could with brakes and acceleration ...

[hardingfv32]

Are they allowed a new tub under the existing regulations?

Brian

[xpensive]

question is :

if you venture for some weird geometry and outlandish design -
how did you get all sennior decisionmakers to give the go ahead?
wouldn´t it be useful and NORMAL to have a fallback solution if things do not work out as planned? It is well possible to design the tub to take both suspension actuation layouts methinks -but you have to allow for it from day one.
...

Quite my thinking marcush, at least in my world, my superior would drop the ever present "what if" question whenever I suggest something radical. Obviously an F1 design is far away from what I humbly design in terms of compromises, but anyway?

[marcush.]

even if it´s a bit offtopic -Mercedes was building the "other car" for two years -with no fallback solution and they could not turn the project around ....

I´m looking forward to their workaround...

[xpensive]

How did McLaren manage to build the hybrid 1993 MP4-8 to test the Lamborghini V12 engine without a new tub?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Are they allowed a new tub under the existing regulations?

Brian

Yes Brian, but obviously they must pass a new crash test. The homologation rules were changed up for this year to give teams a second chance if they got it wrong the first time.