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[hardingfv32]

Anyone recall seeing or hearing what the RPM difference is for DRS open, closed, and/or in the draft passing?

Brian

[myurr]

Depends if they have to set the gearing up to take advantage of the DRS / F-duct and that then compromises their race pace by giving them the wrong gearing when DRS and the duct are not active.

Unlikely. If I recall correctly, their top speed seems to suggest they are geared similarly to other teams.

We were talking about a hypothetical F-duct shedding more drag. To take advantage of the lower drag, and therefore higher top speed, you'd need to change the gearing. This in turn would compromise your pace in the race.

This is one of the big compromises the teams talk about when they talk about sacrificing quali pace for race pace, or vice versa.

[Lycoming]

But the effect on top speed of such a system is very small. I was always under the impression that the true advantage of the system was in improving balance with the wing open. It will be up to the guys at Mclaren to decide whether or not its worth it, or if their finite resources could be better spent pursuing other development avenues.

[WhiteBlue]

I have suspected for some time that McLaren have the best exhaust system of the 2012 cars. This is now confirmed by an article in AMuS.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 32281.html

AMuS:

Die extremste Auspufflösung hat aktuell McLaren zu bieten. Obwohl die Endrohre mit einer Neigung von mindestens zehn Prozent nach oben zeigen müssen, haben es die cleveren Köpfe aus Woking geschafft, die Abgase in den unteren Teil des Hecks zu dirigieren. Mit einem kleinen Schacht wird die Strömung genau dorthin geleitet, wo man sie die Ingenieure hinhaben wollen - nämlich nach außen auf die kleinen Flügelchen an der Bremsbelüftung.

translation:

The most extreme exhaust solution currently is shown by McLaren. Although the end pipes have to point upwards by ten degrees the clever heads at Woking have managed to direct the exhaust gas to the lower part of the rear end. With a small tunnel the flow is directed exactly where it is desired - outwards towards the small winglets on the brake cooling ducts.

Ferrari are rumoured to use another technique pioneered by Sauber but I can imagine that Red Bull will copy the McLaren solution. I do not see that it has any particularly difficult features that would prevent copying it.

[beelsebob]

Depends if they have to set the gearing up to take advantage of the DRS / F-duct and that then compromises their race pace by giving them the wrong gearing when DRS and the duct are not active.

That would be a dumb way to approach it surely – surely the sane thing to do would be to say "hey, our race pace sucks, but our straight line speed is awesome, lets pile on more downforce, claw back that race pace, not increase the gear ratios, and make up for the extra drag using the more effective DRS."

[beelsebob]

Depends if they have to set the gearing up to take advantage of the DRS / F-duct and that then compromises their race pace by giving them the wrong gearing when DRS and the duct are not active.

Unlikely. If I recall correctly, their top speed seems to suggest they are geared similarly to other teams.

We were talking about a hypothetical F-duct shedding more drag. To take advantage of the lower drag, and therefore higher top speed, you'd need to change the gearing. This in turn would compromise your pace in the race.

This is one of the big compromises the teams talk about when they talk about sacrificing quali pace for race pace, or vice versa.

As I said just above – you don't need to increase gear ratios to take advantage of reduced drag – you could also use the reduced drag to offset an increase in drag and downforce.

[hardingfv32]

.... flow is directed exactly where it is desired - outwards towards the small winglets on the brake cooling ducts.

They forgot to mention.... and also into the brake ducts! Well thought out article.

Brian

[Pup]

You'd think that if they're two months behind every other F1 rag in figuring it out that they'd at least get the location right.

[hardingfv32]

...surely the sane thing to do would be to say "hey, our race pace sucks, but our straight line speed is awesome, lets pile on more downforce, claw back that race pace, not increase the gear ratios, and make up for the extra drag using the more effective DRS."

Except you are not always in a position to use the DRS in the race.

Brian

[WhiteBlue]

They forgot to mention.... and also into the brake ducts!

Why would you want the hot air in the brake duct? The ducts are for cooling. Would the exhaust gas produce downforce there?

[myurr]

As I said just above – you don't need to increase gear ratios to take advantage of reduced drag – you could also use the reduced drag to offset an increase in drag and downforce.

But that increased drag in race trim would lead to a lower top speed and therefore compromise the gearing. You cannot take full advantage of a decrease in drag without it affecting the difference between the attainable top speeds. The only other way in which reducing drag will help is with acceleration, but with shorter gearing for the race you'll then just be bouncing down the straight on the rev limiter. This is the compromise I've been trying to highlight,

You either run shorter gearing to get better acceleration in both quali and the race, but then bounce along on the limiter down the straights when DRS is activated compromising top speed, or you run longer gearing and get a better top speed in qualifying and whilst overtaking but get reduced acceleration, and probably compromise top speed further due to incorrect gearing, in the race.

[AnthonyG]

How much laptime would you lose if you geared the first 6 gears "normal"* and use the 7th for max benefit of DRS?

*so that you reach non drs-topspeed in 6th

[raymondu999]

You'd lose acceleration all the way from first to sixth in the race. I don't know how wide the torque band is; but IIRC the 2.4 V8s have quite a narrow torque band.

[myurr]

You'd lose acceleration all the way from first to sixth in the race. I don't know how wide the torque band is; but IIRC the 2.4 V8s have quite a narrow torque band.

Yup.

Depends really on the circuit and how many first gear corners there are. Most of all, though, you'd lose out at the start as if you wanted decent enough race pace then you'd need to compromise with a long first gear. Everything in F1 is a compromise.

[Richied76]

the way I see it is the F-duct will aid you more when heavy with fuel. The cars already having to push the car forward so the reduced drag would help in getting inertia into the car from the low speeds and help acceleration just as much as top end speed. And when your heavy with fuel its less likely to brake traction while traveling in a straight line.

Any way...i dont see why everyone is pondering on who and how teams are going to implement it. why would you want to try route a couple of tubes into an already refined tub? Why not just route the air into the sidepods and vent the air above the exhaust outlets? It will break the "tow" of air downwards to the diffuser and hopefully gain you a little less drag as the air will be passing over the rear wheels rather than the beam wing and diffuser.