Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Lycoming]

At least it wasn't as bad as turkey. I thought it worked quite well there, created a lot of tussling for position under braking, but quite a few clean passes where the driver without DRS was just defenceless.

Back on topic... a 2-3 km/h advantage over 1.2 km is a lot. The straight is also fed by a corner with a very high speed exit, so you can almost immediately be on the limiter. I believe you spend something like 1/5th of the lap (time wise) on that back straight.

Given Brawn's recent comments, I'm not so sure they lack downforce... and in any case it would only hurt them a lot in 2 or 3 corners. Victory will not come if they can't get the tyres working for them... and of course, access to DRS and the double boost their duct gives them is not something they are guaranteed.

I wouldn't hold my breath for a maiden victory. But pole? I think they definitely have a very good shot at pole, and I mean a better one than they did in the last 2 races. Especially since Mclaren don't seem to have the top speed advantage they used to, though they have been quite successful at shanghai in recent years.

[raymondu999]

The back straight is about 15-16 seconds. Over a pole time last year which was 93.7 seconds; that's just about 1/6 of the lap.

Of course Merc could choose to do what McLaren did in Canada 2010 - be average on the straights but be mighty in the quick stuff. The Chinese GP is usually very cold since they moved it to the start of the year.

[Maelstrom]

At least it wasn't as bad as turkey. I thought it worked quite well there, created a lot of tussling for position under braking, but quite a few clean passes where the driver without DRS was just defenceless.

Back on topic... a 2-3 km/h advantage over 1.2 km is a lot. The straight is also fed by a corner with a very high speed exit, so you can almost immediately be on the limiter. I believe you spend something like 1/5th of the lap (time wise) on that back straight.

Given Brawn's recent comments, I'm not so sure they lack downforce... and in any case it would only hurt them a lot in 2 or 3 corners. Victory will not come if they can't get the tyres working for them... and of course, access to DRS and the double boost their duct gives them is not something they are guaranteed.

I wouldn't hold my breath for a maiden victory. But pole? I think they definitely have a very good shot at pole, and I mean a better one than they did in the last 2 races. Especially since Mclaren don't seem to have the top speed advantage they used to, though they have been quite successful at shanghai in recent years.

Didn't Brawn say that they might set up the car more to race pace by maybe sacrificing a bit of qualifying pace?

[Darknight]

I've said it twice on this thread before and I will go out on a limb and say it again. I truly believe that Merc have not used the "Duct" solution during the last 2 races. I also believe that it really is worth a significant amount of time on the track. The reasoning is as follows:

1. Charlie okayed the system twice but still other teams are contesting the legality of the design. So if Merc use it and all of a sudden they are much faster then it could tip decisions in favor of banning the system.
2. The first two races Merc complains about tire degradation issues and the sort. But after the introduce their first "update" all of sudden the car is a lot faster and its due to utilizing the "Duct" while saying to the world that they sorted out their tire issues.
3. The other teams know that this is a difficult solution to copy but not impossible, so they are buying time by constantly contesting the legality of the system so that they can develop their own.

I need not remind you of the Ferrari flexi floor issue and how it was banned early on in the season. I also feel that in essence the system does to the front wing what the Redbull has been doing for some years now, and that is increase down force on the inside (relative to the turn) part of the front wing DURING the race and we have yet to see this be used.

Crossing my fingers that Merc really do have something up their sleeve.

[raymondu999]

And if Merc have used it, what then? We have no proof either way, but some photos do see a hole covered by the DRS flap when DRS is closed.

[Maelstrom]

And if Merc have used it, what then? We have no proof either way, but some photos do see a hole covered by the DRS flap when DRS is closed.

Yep. No proof at all that Merc are sandbagging. Even though i'd be really happy if it was true.

[Mr.S]

Why would a team not use a system which gives them precious time,3-4 tenths atleast. Michael,Nico & Ross have both said that they have used the system & it does not give as much as time as people speculate.

If a system will be banned,it might be primarity because it is illegal or goes against the rules. Or if it is Very Very expensive,unaffordable to most.

[VarioR]

Mercedes on cracking their tyre conundrum

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2012/4/13196.html

In this point i agree with brawn "you can't do the lap times if you don't have enough downforce, horsepower or a good chassis."

[retpog55]

Mercedes on cracking their tyre conundrum

The problem is Mercedes have been trying to crack their tyre conundrum for at least a year now.

Really hope all is finally sorted though.

[Maelstrom]

Mercedes on cracking their tyre conundrum

The problem is Mercedes have been trying to crack their tyre conundrum for at least a year now.

Really hope all is finally sorted though.

From what Brawn said I take it to mean that they will solve it by getting the car set up right. But they will need to work on getting the temp range the tyres work on broader. That will probably not happen very soon. Definately not by China.

[Mestrades]

I've said it twice on this thread before and I will go out on a limb and say it again. I truly believe that Merc have not used the "Duct" solution during the last 2 races. I also believe that it really is worth a significant amount of time on the track. The reasoning is as follows:

1. Charlie okayed the system twice but still other teams are contesting the legality of the design. So if Merc use it and all of a sudden they are much faster then it could tip decisions in favor of banning the system.
2. The first two races Merc complains about tire degradation issues and the sort. But after the introduce their first "update" all of sudden the car is a lot faster and its due to utilizing the "Duct" while saying to the world that they sorted out their tire issues.
3. The other teams know that this is a difficult solution to copy but not impossible, so they are buying time by constantly contesting the legality of the system so that they can develop their own.

I need not remind you of the Ferrari flexi floor issue and how it was banned early on in the season. I also feel that in essence the system does to the front wing what the Redbull has been doing for some years now, and that is increase down force on the inside (relative to the turn) part of the front wing DURING the race and we have yet to see this be used.

Crossing my fingers that Merc really do have something up their sleeve.

I think that you are dreaming.
Do you really think that the team have not used the DRS's device? Do you think that Mercedes are reserving the system? A system that has cost so time and money? I don't think so...
F1 teams can not keep anything and they have to prove it as soon as they can because there is no time to react.

[hardingfv32]

Do you really think that the team have not used the DRS's device? Do you think that Mercedes are reserving the system? A system that has cost so time and money? I don't think so...
F1 teams can not keep anything and they have to prove it as soon as they can because there is no time to react.

No one but the team knows if this system provides any performance gain. This idea was posted by Scarbs as early as Oct 2011. You do not find it odd that absolutely no other team has anything like it? This alone is a good reason to be suspect of the system.

How long did it take the teams to get behind the RW F-duct?

So Mercedes has a fail system, why not keep the visual clues on the car to play a head game with the competition? No cost and not much effort on their part to fight the rule battles.

Brian

[Ferraripilot]

Mercedes on cracking their tyre conundrum

The problem is Mercedes have been trying to crack their tyre conundrum for at least a year now.

Really hope all is finally sorted though.

From what Brawn said I take it to mean that they will solve it by getting the car set up right. But they will need to work on getting the temp range the tyres work on broader. That will probably not happen very soon. Definately not by China.

I would not be so quick to judge if they will get the setup right in China. We know two things right now, in Australia the tires were too hot and in Malaysia they were too cold. From this we can deduce Mercedes know how to control the heat range of the tires meaning this is not an issue of the suspension not adjusting correctly to the tires but rather this is an issue of the suspension simply not being adjusted correctly. This works greatly to their advantage as it simply means they have learned where the edges of this 'window' they and Pirelli speak of are located. Now they just need to shoot for the center of this box they have created. Should be easy enough IMO. Given a dry race of course.

[Maelstrom]

From what Brawn said I take it to mean that they will solve it by getting the car set up right. But they will need to work on getting the temp range the tyres work on broader. That will probably not happen very soon. Definately not by China.

I would not be so quick to judge if they will get the setup right in China. We know two things right now, in Australia the tires were too hot and in Malaysia they were too cold. From this we can deduce Mercedes know how to control the heat range of the tires meaning this is not an issue of the suspension not adjusting correctly to the tires but rather this is an issue of the suspension simply not being adjusted correctly. This works greatly to their advantage as it simply means they have learned where the edges of this 'window' they and Pirelli speak of are located. Now they just need to shoot for the center of this box they have created. Should be easy enough IMO. Given a dry race of course.

I was not denying that they'll get the tires right this time. I was simply saying that they have a very narrow operational range and that will probably take time to broaden.

[Raptor22]

you have a 50% chance of being right on that one but really more indepth information is needed.
Usually set up window is suspension related, getting camber and castor correct for the given conditions. It seems they're still not sure how aggressive they can go which is really indicative of simply not knowing enough about the car.
The first two races were both lottery's in terms of tyre usage. They just need to find that optimum compromise between camber and castor.
Their current settings probably gives them best mechanical grip and they don;t want to give that up but somethings got to give. Ultimately the long term solution is going to involve some tweaks to the suspension geometry