Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

[Nando]

Umm, Craig, that's a Mercedes.

And the conversation started with the suggestion that the Ferrari is "draggy." I mentioned traction-limited top speed as a response to that.

Now I'm going to exit while you struggle to gain traction on the gist of the discussion.

Ciao.

Are you serious?

You pulled out Qualifying speed trap figures FROM CHINESE GP.

You said the top speed was because of traction.

I showed a picture that shows just how early the cars hit their top speed on that straight.
You for some reason missed that point and instead commented on the OBVIOUS thing that it was a Mercedes in the picture.

Your argument that the Ferrari has traction issues that dis-allows them to reach their top speed is wrong.
For the Chinese GP at the very least, you pulled out speed trap figures for the Shanghai GP remember?

and i´m out, there´s obviously lit in the house but nobody is home.

[raymondu999]

Cracking race. Would've been interesting to see what would've happened in the 2 vs 3 stop strategy had there not been a Massa train holding Raikkonen and Vettel back. I was absolutely thrilled for Raikkonen running in de facto P2 while Massa was doing his Trulli impression. Mind you he wouldn't have carried through to the end due to tyre life anyways. Ironically had Raikkonen held on, I think it would've helped Vettel as Vettel could open his DRS to negate the McLaren DRS. If only Raikkonen had hit the cliff on the last lap instead

I think the strategy was very middle of the road today. A 2 stop shouldn't have finished the race, but a 3 stop was providing too much tyre lifespan. I'm surprised people didn't try 3 option and 1 prime stint. In hindsight it looks like the quickest way today.

I don't know if it's just me - but I've felt since Pirelli came into F1 that DRS isn't needed. DRS sort of gives an advantage to a more-stop strategy IMO.

Btw when did Grosjean pit, vs Raikkonen? How come Grosjean made the 2 stop work but not Raikkonen, in the same car?

Also it looked a bit like the option and prime had the same tyre life. Tiny difference anyways. Vettel managed 15 laps on the options and 18 on the first primes, which was on lighter fuel. Then it lasted about 20 laps before the McLarens could take him.

[Nando]

fact is that you can stand on the edge of the exit of the banked right hander, launch the car and hit top speed WELL before the braking zone.

[Maelstrom]

What can be concluded is: In these conditions on this track, the RedBull in the hands of Vettel is the kindest car to its tires. He had his second set of hards put on from lap 31 (or so?) and only lost out in the very last moment. Others suffered much earlier. But still, with their current Quali and race pace their not gonna win any championship at all this season.

Vettel and Webber aren't that behind in the points so far and RBR is second in the constructors standings. Considering there are 17 more races left they aren't out by a long shot.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

seriously? You argument on a point yet you don´t even know where the speed trap is?


It´s at the end of the 1 KILOMETER LONG STRAIGHT.

There´s no traction issue there that dis-allows a car to reach it´s top speed on that straight.

You're entitled to your opinion, however I agree with Bhall. Ironically, Nico Rosberg specifically said on Sky when walking the track with Brundle that traction coming out of turns 11, 12 & 13 were very important and affected your speed on the straight. Case closed.

[Traction]

Alonso needs a mention in regards to this race...running wide in an attempt to overtake seemed llike a basic mistake to me....

well, it was becuase of the marbles. Nothing wrong with trying to overtake outside, but those marbles make you drive as on ice. So, yes, his mistake was to underestimate the merbles. But untill them he was on the same pace with Webber and Hamilton.

BTW, did LH move twice to defend from Vettel?

I think Alonso is brilliant...I just think he should not have found himself in that situation...

In regards to the LH question...I will let the stewards have the decision on that..if they do not raise it as a concern then neither should anyone else....

[Nando]

You're entitled to your opinion, however I agree with Bhall. Ironically, Nico Rosberg specifically said on Sky when walking the track with Brundle that traction coming out of turns 11, 12 & 13 were very important and affected your speed on the straight. Case closed.

Most definitely for the race.

If you took just 1 minute of your life and actually watched an onboard lap you would see that your argument fails instantly.

Btw, Turn 10 is completely irrelevant for the top speed on the straight.
you would know that had you watched a lap.

[bhall]

I know I'm in the minority, but these tire lotteries aren't very amusing to me.

Meaning? Could you explain?

Tire strategy will always, always, always be important; that's a given, because effective use of the tires is likely the single biggest performance differentiator between the cars. I'm under no illusions that such will ever change.

However, with DRS and rapid degradation that leaves off-line marbles everywhere, I think the role of the tires has been over-emphasized. Raikkonen's race was positively ruined when his tires fell off a cliff, which caused a single drift into the marbles that snowballed into him dropping from P2 to P12 within two laps.

I personally think that's a bit excessive. But, I'm well aware that I'm in the minority with that view and that the tires are the same for everyone, and thus all teams have the same chance to make them work or not. It's just a personal preference thing for me, I suppose.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

You're entitled to your opinion, however I agree with Bhall. Ironically, Nico Rosberg specifically said on Sky when walking the track with Brundle that traction coming out of turns 11, 12 & 13 were very important and affected your speed on the straight. Case closed.

Most definitely for the race.

If you took just 1 minute of your life and actually watched an onboard lap you would see that your argument fails instantly.

Btw, Turn 10 is completely irrelevant for the top speed on the straight.
you would know that had you watched a lap.

Dude get over yourself. Traction coming out of the turn is crucial to lap time, whether in the race or in qualifying. Better traction in the turn allows for better, quicker acceleration which you'll hit top speed quicker than the driver who is having to play with throttle & struggling with traction. The driver who gets to top speed quicker(longer) will more than likely have the faster lap.

Ferrari's lack of traction is causing the drivers the play with the throttle and make compromises that cars with better traction don't have to deal with.

[Maelstrom]

I agree that what happened to Raikkonen was highly unfortunate. Was it me or did his pace seem a bit off today?

[myurr]

I had nothing left in the tyres on the last lap. And we had absolutely no straight line speed at all. People pulling away everywhere. Ridiculous.

From memory based on just hearing it on the telly. The word 'ridiculous' seems a little over the top.

Edit: that was on the radio to his team on the in lap after the race.

[Nando]

Dude get over yourself. Traction coming out of the turn is crucial to lap time, whether in the race or in qualifying.

we are talking speed trap figures.
Not laptimes.

You hit top speed halfway through. So if you get a bad exit you will STILL REACH TOP SPEED.
You can stand still after the corner and launch the car and still hit top speed.
That´s how long that straight it. I can´t even comprehend that we are having this discussion about such a fundamental and obvious thing as the Chinese back straight.

Better traction in the turn allows for better, quicker acceleration which you'll hit top speed quicker than the driver who is having to play with throttle & struggling with traction. The driver who gets to top speed quicker(longer) will more than likely have the faster lap.

Read the big black text above this quote.
It is all true what you say but it is not what we are discussing.

Ferrari's lack of traction is causing the drivers the play with the throttle and make compromises that cars with better traction don't have to deal with.

Again you are talking about stuff that is irrelevant.

we are talking about the speed trap figures from QUALIFYING with DRS enabled.

Those numbers led Ball to belive they were traction limited out of Turn 12.
That is not true.

Please keep it on the subject at hand.

Edit: hilarious... it´s a sect here like someone said.

[rbr25]

SENNA SENNA SENNA SENNA SENNA - FW34.. drs with weak, broken nose / 14º to Finish 7º / 25 laps on soft tires???? GREAT JOB

[Maelstrom]

I had nothing left in the tyres on the last lap. And we had absolutely no straight line speed at all. People pulling away everywhere. Ridiculous.

From memory based on just hearing it on the telly. The word 'ridiculous' seems a little over the top.

Edit: that was on the radio to his team on the in lap after the race.

Temper tantrums from the World champion? What did he expect. His tyres were probably finished.

[myurr]

Yeah, hadn't actually noticed that. Very strong finish, two races in a row. That Williams is a fairly handy race car.