Chinese GP 2012 - Shanghai

[Traction]

Just wondering if the F duct that Mercedes have will benefit them as much in the upcoming race as it did in China with it's long straights. With the straighline speed a huge advantage in this instance is benefitted from. In the track without the long straights maybe the straighline speed will be to some extent be negated.

Rosberg was pulling away from everyone and maintaining his lead with no one in front of him so his DRS wasn't actually the reason why he won this race.

The track temps in Bahrain are vastly different to what they experienced here, so their tyre degradation problems aren't totally proven to be gone.

Yeah...good point...not much use of the DRS, Bahrain might be their undoing whereas it might fall into Vettels hands as he knows how to look after tyres while still maintaining pace...

[myurr]

He needs to get on top of his qualifying performance first. That Red Bull isn't that quick over a single lap compared to the others, plus his team mate seems to have about two tenths over him in terms of raw pace.

But I agree Vettel still looks after his tyres as best as anyone and so could be in for a strong race. Bahrain probably isn't going to be kind to the tyres if it's as hot as predicted.

[Traction]

He needs to get on top of his qualifying performance first. That Red Bull isn't that quick over a single lap compared to the others, plus his team mate seems to have about two tenths over him in terms of raw pace.

But I agree Vettel still looks after his tyres as best as anyone and so could be in for a strong race. Bahrain probably isn't going to be kind to the tyres if it's as hot as predicted.

Perhaps now Vettel will change his exhaust system to that of Webbers.

RB based the decision not to chase top speed largely due to the awesome traction the blown diffusers gave them. Perhaps after China top speed might be looked at a bit closer.

[myurr]

He needs to get on top of his qualifying performance first. That Red Bull isn't that quick over a single lap compared to the others, plus his team mate seems to have about two tenths over him in terms of raw pace.

But I agree Vettel still looks after his tyres as best as anyone and so could be in for a strong race. Bahrain probably isn't going to be kind to the tyres if it's as hot as predicted.

Perhaps now Vettel will change his exhaust system to that of Webbers.

RB based the decision not to chase top speed largely due to the awesome traction the blown diffusers gave them. Perhaps after China top speed might be looked at a bit closer.

That would be a fundamental shift in philosophy though, so wouldn't be implemented mid season. They could sacrifice some downforce for a better top speed but this would lead to lower average lap times.

I think Vettel may still be setting up the car in the same way he was last year, worrying about tyre life and cranking on the down force. He could lose some down force and risk sliding the tyres a little more during the race in exchange for faster speed down the straights. But I don't think we'll see any fundamental shifts until next year if they decide to build a new car.

[myurr]

On the exhausts you could also see Vettel arguing that the reason he was able to make the tyres work and get the most out of the two stop strategy was because of the more predictable nature of the a spec exhausts. That said I think it's costing him a tenth or two in quali and with the field as tight as it is that is giving away too much in terms of track position.

[amouzouris]

i also think that they are gearing the first 3 gears shorter as well to help the car with the low traction..shorter gears means that the car will be on lower revs when it is exiting the corner so it will be able to control its power better....i use this effect in the game 'F1 2011' in monaco to have better traction on exit...so this would be a limiting factor as well because they can't have an extremely long 7th gear thus it limits its top speed...i hope you get what im trying to say and that it makes sense..

[Nando]

If you believe that Ferrari are traction limited at China then i don't know what to say.

The fact that you bring up the qual speed traps as something valid towards your argument i simply can't understand.

Why? because it's i possible for them to be traction limited in China on that straight.
Impossible.

The fact that they are that low in top speed, equal to Mclaren and Red Bull who we know have lots of downforce simply tells us the Ferrari is draggy as hell. It creates les downforce yet it's just as draggy.

[Mandrake]

Temper tantrums from the World champion? What did he expect. His tyres were probably finished.

I wouldn't go so far as saying it's temper tantrums this time, but I thought it was very telling the way he spat out the word 'ridiculous'. Like he isn't aware of the fact that the Red Bull has not been focused on straight line speed for the last couple of years, and that he doesn't know the tradeoffs that are made. He's benefitting elsewhere in the lap but has to pay the price of low straight line speed.

This is German culture. Apparently we're not masking our thoughts as much as other nationalities do ^^ After seeing the discussion raised by his cucumber comment, which I felt was a pretty soft insult, the ridiculous should be seen as a "stunning" or sth. like that.
It's not to be understood as overly harsh criticism.

I have a feeling that in Bahrain we will see a totally different grid again. So far we had a street circuit, a wet circuit, a cold dry circuit and the next will be dry & hot.

[Nando]

i also think that they are gearing the first 3 gears shorter as well to help the car with the low traction..shorter gears means that the car will be on lower revs when it is exiting the corner so it will be able to control its power better....i use this effect in the game 'F1 2011' in monaco to have better traction on exit...so this would be a limiting factor as well because they can't have an extremely long 7th gear thus it limits its top speed...i hope you get what im trying to say and that it makes sense..

Shorter first 3 gears would make it even more nervous as you put on the power out of a corner.

F1 2011 is as far from a simulation as Mario Kart.

[bhall]

If you want to keep shooting blanks, I'm not going to stand in your way. I've explained this issue as far as I'm willing to explain it.

But, for the life of me, I cannot understand why you think traction plays no role in top speed at this track. What's so special about Shanghai?

The only thing I can think of is that you've somehow forgotten about the left/right kink that opens the long, sweeping, banked right turn that leads onto the back straight. Traction, and traction alone, is what determines how effectively a driver can apply power to negotiate this kink with enough momentum to build a high top speed. Nothing else, and I do mean nothing, plays a factor there.

I lost count of the number of times I saw the F2012 experience horrible oversteer in this section, and it wasn't just limited to one driver.

See the whole picture. Don't lose the forest for the trees.

[Guisson]

Pretty Good Race ! Especially in the last laps !
Mercedes AMG:Well Deserved for Nico and unlucky for Schumi :/
Ferrari:Alonso as usal , trying to pull off the maximum of the car.However I thought It was Team Orders when Fernando overtook Massa(did his best too I think)..(or maybe not)
Lotus:Grosjean finally completes the Race
Bad Luck for Kimi he deserved a better position.
Mclaren Mercedes:Good Start for Button and Solid Race, Lewis Did the job but Nico was out of Reach for both Drivers.
Red Bull Racing:Vettel drove well,but he suffered a lot Tyre Wear in the last lap (just as last year)His Start was not good and he was held in the "train" ..The Podium was not far
Mark was also challenging for a podium and did a solid race,
And he beat his teammate 2nd time in a row..

Good Performance by The Williams ! (There is Reliability and Speed.That's what counts the most)
BAD Race for Both Toro Rossos

[elFranZ]

Where is the speed trap located?

seriously? You argument on a point yet you don´t even know where the speed trap is?


It´s at the end of the 1 KILOMETER LONG STRAIGHT.

There´s no traction issue there that dis-allows a car to reach it´s top speed on that straight.

Stay cool, Nando baby, stay cool.
It was just a clarification I was asking for, ok?

[piast9]

It was nice race to watch. I just wonder if that sudden pace from Mercedes isn't just a coincidence of the track characteristic and very cold weather that played in their favour. We'll see soon in Bahrain where it won't be cold for sure.

[Ral]

Btw when did Grosjean pit, vs Raikkonen? How come Grosjean made the 2 stop work but not Raikkonen, in the same car?

I don't remember the exact laps but Grosjaen had a long first and second stint. Raikkonen first pitted 1 or two laps behind the McLarens and made his second stop together with Hamilton.

Having had high hopes for Kimi's race today, I was slightly annoyed to hear Boullier insist that they were running the right strategy with him making it sound like he was blaming the driver in a slightly underhanded way. Nobody made the tyres last longer than 23 laps and Kimi's last stint was 28 if I remember correctly. I think they were trying to be a bit too clever trying to get back at Hamilton or not get stuck behind Massa again by not stopping a third time despite clearly having started with a three stop in mind.

Exciting race in all. Awesome job by Rosberg and Mercedes.

How high was Webber's heart rate when his car started trying to do a backflip again out of turn 13

[mnmracer]

2012 CHINESE GRAND PRIX STATISTICS
Qualifying statistics

• This was Nico Rosberg's first ever pole position. Although he was the youngest ever driver to set a fastest race lap, aged 20 at the 2006 Bahrain Grand Prix, his first pole position, 6 years later, puts him some 5 years short of being the youngest pole sitter. He is still younger than his father though, who was 34 when he trained his first pole position at the 1982 British Grand Prix. Keke didn't need as many races though: 60 versus 111.
• The last pole position of Mercedes Grand Prix was 57 years ago, by Juan Manuel Fangio at the 1955 Italian Grand Prix, which was Mercedes' last race before their comeback in 2010. Like in China, Mercedes started from the front row, with Sterling Moss qualifying on p2.
• While Hamilton was hopeful of securing a third pole position in a row, statistics were against him. In the 90's, in seven years the pole sitter in the first race was able to train pole for the first three races. In the 2000's however, it happened only once, and since Michael Schumacher in 2004, only Sebastian Vettel was able to train pole position for the first three races of the season, last year in 2011.
• The difference between the numbers 1 and 10 after Q2 was just 0.257s, which is the smallest qualifying gap in any session for at least the last 25 years. The nearest to that was the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix, where Heikki Kovalainen on p1 and Jarno Trulli on p10 after Q2 were only 0.339s apart. P11 and P10 were seperated by 0.13s then, while Vettel was just 0.049s short of Alonso's p10.
• With Sebastian Vettel's 11th qualifying position, it was the first time since the 2009 Brazilian Grand Prix that he was unable to qualify in the top 10.
• Of the 3 long-time team mate qualifying battles, Vettel and Webber are now 43:15(74%), with Alonso outqualifying Massa 33:8(80%) and Hamilton outqualifying Button 30:11(73%).

Race statistics

• Nico Rosberg scored his first race win, also his first win from pole position. It's his sixth total podium finish and he is the 103rd Grand Prix winner in history.
• He is the 15th driver in history to get his first race win in the same Grand Prix as his first pole position, after Giuseppe "Nino" Farina (1950 British GP), Juan Manuel Fangio (1950 Monaco GP), José Froilán González (1951 British GP), Alberto Ascari (1951 German GP), Stirling Moss (1955 British GP), Joakim Bonnier (1959 Dutch GP), Phil Hill (1960 Italian GP), Nelson Piquet (1980 United States West GP), Ayrton Senna (1985 Portuguese GP), Jarno Trulli (2004 Monaco GP), Felipe Massa (2006 Turkish GP), Lewis Hamilton (2007 Canadian GP), Sebastian Vettel (2008 Italian GP) and Mark Webber (2009 German GP).
• 6 other drivers also turned their first pole position into a win, although they had won before: Jack Brabham (1959 British GP; first win was 1959 Monaco GP), Jody Scheckter (1976 Swedish GP; first win was 1974 Swedish GP), Gilles Villeneuve (1979 United States West GP; first win was 1978 Canadian GP), Michele Alboreto (1982 Belgian GP; first win was 1983 Detroit GP), Thierry Boutsen (1990 Hungarian GP; first win was 1989 Canadian GP) and Michael Schumacher (1994 Monaco GP; first win was 1992 Belgian GP).
• His father Keke Rosberg was unable to convert his first pole position into a win, not finishing the 1982 British Grand Prix after a fuel problem. His first win, later that year in Switzerland, came from 8th position on the grid.
• After Graham and Damon Hill, and Gilles and Jacques Villeneuve, Keke and Nico Rosberg are now the third father-son pair to have both won races. The only other family members to have done so are brother Michael and Ralf Schumacher.
• With Nico Rosberg being the 7th German race winner, Germany now has more race winners then Brazil. The country with most race winners is still Great Britain, with 19.
• Although 111 races before his first win must have felt like an eternity, there are actually four drivers who took longer: Mark Webber (130th race), Rubens Barrichello (123rd race), Jarno Trulli (119th race) and Jenson Button (113th race). Giancarlo Fisischella needed 110 races before his first victory.
• By winning his 111th race, Rosberg actually saved himself from making the top 10 of most races without a win, with Mika Salo and Piercarlo Ghinzani having participated in 111 Grand Prix's without winning. Although, if you only count race starts, he was already on that list, as the latter didn't qualify for all their Grand Prix's.
• Jenson Button scored his 44th podium finish, as did Lewis Hamilton.
• Lewis Hamilton is the first driver in history to score three consecutive third place finishes from the first race of the season.
• Heinz-Harald Frentzen (1997 Belgian Grand Prix - 1997 Luxemburg Grand Prix) and Mark Webber (2011 Canadian Grand Prix - 2011 German Grand Prix) share the record for most consecutive third place finishes, with 4 each.
• Despite that, Lewis Hamilton is only the 12th driver in history to score three consecutive third place finishes after Luigi Villoresi (1951 Belgian GP - 1951 British GP), Jean Behra (1956 French GP - 1956 German GP), Dan Gurney (1965 Dutch GP - 1965 Italian GP), Denny Hulme (1972 Italian GP - 1972 USA GP), Jacques Laffite (1979 German GP - 1979 Dutch GP), Mika Häkkinen (1994 Italian GP - 1994 European GP), Gerhard Berger (1995 San Marino GP - 2003 Canadian GP), Rubens Barichello (2003 San Marino GP - 2003 Austrian GP) and Kimi Räikkönen (2008 Japanese GP - 2008 Brazilian GP).
• While unlikely he won't score higher, if Lewis Hamilton scores only 3rd places this year, he would actually have a good chance of winning the title. Although only 3rd places would have put him short of winning the title in years such as 2002, 2004 and 2011, consistent 3rd place finishes would have won the championship in most other years, although no champion has even won the title without winning a race that year.
• Kamui Kobayashi got his first ever fastest lap. He is only the third ever Japanese driver to set a fastest lap, after Masahiro Hasemi set the fastest lap in his only Formula One race, the 1976 Japanese Grand Prix, and Satoru Nakajima in the 1989 Australian Grand Prix.