Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[bill shoe]

It s the brake balance lever.

here is a pic of what it looks like found on the forum (courtesy scarbs f1)
http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... 030498.jpg

Well, if that is what they currently us it is not very sophisticated. That is a two position valve that actually only reduce the pressure to one end of the brake system. It would be simple to use, but IF that is all they have for a brake balance adjustment then the driver has no way to make the tradition front to rear brake adjustment that you get from manipulating the brake balance bar.

Brian

I think the main brake proportioning is still done with some kind of mechanical linkage at the pedal and master cylinder area. The proportioning valve in the picture is a relatively off-the-shelf unit that is used precisely because it has some hysteresis. The teams cleverly use this to create a brake-bias transient during braking.

At initial brake application the car can slow at several G's due to high speed and downforce. This creates large longitudinal weight transfer and a need for more front brake bias. Later in the brake application (a brief second or two in F1) the car is much slower and has less downforce and less decel G's. This means less longitudinal weight transfer and therefore a need for relatively less front bias. This creates a need for a change in front-rear brake balance during the braking event (transition from more front bias to less front bias). It could be done with electronics but that's banned by rules. So the pressure-reducing valve is used because it has some hysteresis that can match the desired balance change during short events.

I learned this from F1T and a couple magazines. If I remember correctly, this was one of the things that McLaren learned from the Ferrari during spy-gate several years ago. As a result McLaren was banned from using this system the following season while the rest of the grid was allowed to. Not arguing, just giving some perspective.

[WhiteBlue]

What if air flow doesn't enter the rear wing slots at all? What if those are exits?

Nice thinking out of the box. I just can't believe that the observers got it so wrong. If the system would work the way you proposed it would look different. Another point is the scrutineering by the FiA. The system description doesn't agree with your idea.

[ivand911]

I am sure the team is thinking how to improve that system, when other teams think how to implement it. Of course MGP with their real experience will be in advantage this year. They will try to make it work both in Q and the race.

[Ferraripilot]

And as far as I know, the FIA hasn't released any details about the system except to say that it's legal.

They definitely know how it operates.

Track temps in Bahrain are 10C+ over China am I right? I wouldn't expect Mercedes to bring updates over the course of one week but I hear they are. Any updates this quick tell me the updates have something to do with the suspension for higher temps at this next track. It's pure speculation at this point but something to take heat out of the tires would not surprise me.

[Maelstrom]

It did not seem to me so far that Merc cannot handle the heat. It seemed more like they have got their setup wrong in the first two races. So if they manage to get accurate data from the FP's and the temp stays relatively consistent they could have a strong race.

[NonNewtonic]

It did not seem to me so far that Merc cannot handle the heat. It seemed more like they have got their setup wrong in the first two races. So if they manage to get accurate data from the FP's and the temp stays relatively consistent they could have a strong race.

So it may be another good race in Bahrain as the weather there is pretty similar along the weekend its just hot hot and HOT!

[NonNewtonic]

And as far as I know, the FIA hasn't released any details about the system except to say that it's legal.

Is not that the FIA haven't release the details about that system is that they CAN'T REVEAL any details about the system not even to Lotus which protested the system. What makes you think that Mercedes will willing to show the system that they spent months to develop and fine tuning it to their rivals just like that? And also I think that you haven't really gone through the full FIA statement about the protest. In the statement it clearly stated that Mercedes has provided a full detail drawing to the FIA. Please go research out before making any comment!

[Richard]

Race talk moved to the race thread viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12375&view=unread#unread

Clue - Schumacher, Rosberg and lap times are not physical features of the car.

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Talking of features on the car, yes it is valid to discuss the implementation of the DDRS on W03 in this thread, but generic discussion about legality, passive v active, etc is better in the generic thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12199&view=unread#unread

[SiLo]

Having seen the size of the tubes running along the car, I can't see how the pylons for the FW are thick enough to let air through them at a decent enough velocity for this system to work. Other teams have similarly thin pylons yet not DDRS.

[mx_tifoso]

Race talk moved to the race thread viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12375&view=unread#unread

Clue - Schumacher, Rosberg and lap times are not physical features of the car.

.......


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Updated: More posts moved out to the race thread.

[ak21_rao]

If you guys have noticed, looking at the onboard laps of lewis vs schumacher in australia and nico vs kimi in china (from youtube) you will clearly notice that the W03 closes its rear wing flap 2-3 secs earlier than the others, maybe to stabilize the air flow before the braking. However it does look like W03 opens its flap a sec earlier than others. Sorry i could't do much video editing to show you guys the comparo.

[Ozan]

If you guys have noticed, looking at the onboard laps of lewis vs schumacher in australia and nico vs kimi in china (from youtube) you will clearly notice that the W03 closes its rear wing flap 2-3 secs earlier than the others, maybe to stabilize the air flow before the braking. However it does look like W03 opens its flap a sec earlier than others. Sorry i could't do much video editing to show you guys the comparo.

this is because of the Front Wing's stalling status. With our DDRS, FW stalls with the RW. and drivers have to close DRS earlier to stop the stalling and get the traction back.

[Ferraripilot]

Having seen the size of the tubes running along the car, I can't see how the pylons for the FW are thick enough to let air through them at a decent enough velocity for this system to work. Other teams have similarly thin pylons yet not DDRS.

I suspect the tubes are towards the front of the pylons and are of oval shape. You'd be amazed the CFM an engine can pull through just one intake valve diameter of say 42mm for instance. They're seeing plenty of flow to adequately stall the front wing. I'd kill for some actual data on it though (so would many others!), but if I had to guess, I'd say the front wing stall at 80mph is equivalent to losing 50lbs of weight from the front, and the scale of weight increases with speed, so say 100lbs lost at 150mph. This is probably why Schumacher stated the system was quite 'aggressive' when switching off just before braking and most likely the reason the system must be deactivated earlier. What amazes me is that the front end is so stable under heavy braking, I'd bet they have some sort of trick system managing front end hydraulics under dive conditions.

[Chuckjr]

Incredible consideration there. Well done. Is Merc utilizing any exhaust blown diffuser technique with the current car, or is that innovation still to come?

[hardingfv32]

I suspect the tubes are towards the front of the pylons and are of oval shape. You'd be amazed the CFM an engine can pull through just one intake valve diameter of say 42mm for instance. They're seeing plenty of flow to adequately stall the front wing.

1) You think. The pressure at the DDRS opening on the RW is about .10 psi and the negative pressure at the FW slot is about -.15 psi. I think a engines intake is pulling somewhat better numbers.

2) Some sample data:

Airfoil (NACA 2104) Data for 90 m/s - full 996mm wing with lower airfoil at 20 degrees and upper airfoil at 45 degrees:

Lower element has 4330.43 N downforce and 1162,28 N drag
Upper element has 1112.39 N downforce and 1146.61 N drag

The AoA of the upper element needs to be only 13-14 deg to be at zero downforce.

So with the RW flap open you have about 250 lb less downforce.

3) Remember, you are only stalling only a portion of the of the upper element of the front and that stalling does not imply a reduction to zero downforce. I doubt you can get much more than 10-20%. so you are not going to see anything like the downforce numbers you are suggesting.

Brian