Ferrari F2012

[Lycoming]

well, thats why I added the qualifier "seems... If nothing else, it is a very small difference in height relative to the bottom of the rear wing. Perhaps the mounting of the beam wing and the low height make it look like its mounted taller.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

well, thats why I added the qualifier "seems... If nothing else, it is a very small difference in height relative to the bottom of the rear wing. Perhaps the mounting of the beam wing and the low height make it look like its mounted taller.

No no, don't get me wrong I thought Ferrari's moneky seat sat taller than other teams too, then I started looking through pictures for comparisons sake and noticed it really wasn't that much taller if at all.

What's the larger question is the true purpose of the monkey seat aside from adding DF. What I really mean is how exactly is it working and/or what specific part is it helping. The Official F1 site says it's helping the RW main plane. I've seen Ringo say the same thing. Yet others are thinking it's helping another part of the car.

I'm just wondering for personal knowledge. Maybe Shelly or another good aero member can chime in here.. Pierce? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? :p

[Lycoming]

For sure it helps the diffuser. I just struggle to see how it helps the wing...

[amouzouris]

Well thats interesting. I wonder how it helps the rear wing... if thats correct it may explain why it seems to be mounted so high.

I don't think it's mounted any higher than any other team. IMHO

yup....i agree with u! that's what i said a few pages back...

For sure it helps the diffuser. I just struggle to see how it helps the wing...

maybe...it can help keep the flow to the rear of the wing attached when they run they wing at a higher AoA

[Kiril Varbanov]

It doesn't help that much on either the upper rear wing or diffuser.
Yes, it is very high, because it could be low as well - example here -


Copyright: "Michalis K. , known also as bar555"

It brings drag, too, so it's a trade-off.
Since its profile is angled, just like the upper wing, it serves a similar purpose, but due to its position it's also tied with engine cover flows and vent outlet.
Generally, in that area you would not want something to disturb your high-speed air flow, so it's a pursuit of rear downforce.
The track per se also adds to the equation: the rear tires were very problematic.

[MIKEY_!]

Maybe (and that's a big maybe) it helps keep flow attached to the centre of the rear wing by increasing pressure in that area. Mclaren had a wing support which was supposed to do something similar in 2008 IIRC.

I thought about that but I think that they would have less separation issues in the middle of the wing.

I don't understand why but that reason was also used for the 2008 Honda central wing slot and the flaps with a longer chord in the middle.

[bar555]

Another serious reason for having the mini plane placed a bit higher is to keep it above the hot air flow that exits out of the engine cover outlet .

[shelly]

@Crucial : I think that the monkey seat acts as a drs enhancer (see my previous post in this thread): when the mainplane stalls, it could stall too, or at least go in an off design condition, thus amplyfying the effect of the drs

[cccag]

Do I see a hole here ?

[elFranZ]

Also seen in China.

[bar555]

That hole is present since launch

[Crucial_Xtreme]

For sure it helps the diffuser. I just struggle to see how it helps the wing...

maybe...it can help keep the flow to the rear of the wing attached when they run they wing at a higher AoA

I asked Scarbs what he thought.




@shelly thanks mate

[Pierce89]

well, thats why I added the qualifier "seems... If nothing else, it is a very small difference in height relative to the bottom of the rear wing. Perhaps the mounting of the beam wing and the low height make it look like its mounted taller.

No no, don't get me wrong I thought Ferrari's moneky seat sat taller than other teams too, then I started looking through pictures for comparisons sake and noticed it really wasn't that much taller if at all.

What's the larger question is the true purpose of the monkey seat aside from adding DF. What I really mean is how exactly is it working and/or what specific part is it helping. The Official F1 site says it's helping the RW main plane. I've seen Ringo say the same thing. Yet others are thinking it's helping another part of the car.

I'm just wondering for personal knowledge. Maybe Shelly or another good aero member can chime in here.. Pierce? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? :p

Theoretically, I'd say, that the Simian Sofa(credit to N_Smikle) would help both the rear wing and diffuser. It will strengthen the overall upwash helping attachment under the R.Wing and extraction from the diffuser, in addition the small bit of DF production it offers in it's own right.

[Vanja #66]

a possible upgrade would maybe be a detached beam wing?? is there any advantage to the current configuration?? and also a detached beam wing will make it harder for DDRS tubes to get into the car (assuming they want to develop a DDRS system)...maybe they will use a swan-like attachment for the tubes to pass??

Not sure about detached beam wing, but am quite about DDRS... I posted an interview of Fry for f1-serbia.com few pages back, they have their people on race tracks, I'm surprised at how much credibility they have, so I don't think that it's false news.

Thought of Ferrari getting DDRS ready for Canada makes most sense to me, only race between them is Monaco, but there is no use for DDRS cause there isn't even a true straight there...

Month and a half, exclude two weeks until Mugello, about a month of full development time... Is it enough?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Found the slot like Sauber introduced & Red Bull copied as well as us now.