Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: these tryes.

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And in fact, 2010 with DRS would of been a much better year also.
Felipe Baby!

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: these tryes.

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What was Michael's comment?
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

marcush.
marcush.
159
Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: these tryes.

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banibhusan wrote:It just boils down to a simple question. How good the racing was in 2010?

If you look back at 2010 season, every single team, driver and fan criticised the tyres because they could virtually last the whole race. The only overtaking you would see is at the start of the race or may be pitstops(which were just one or rarely 2). And that's it!!

You can argue to bring back the refueling, but with the current cost restriction, it's clearly not possible. Well racing back in the 80's were much more fun without refueling. They didn't have to save the tyres. They were just pushing to the limit all the time. What has made the difference? Yes, it's aerodynamics, ground effect, bla bla bla!! Limit that and you can have good racing again.
i´m not sure if you really watched F1 back then.

I do remember very well all the races at Hockenheim in the 80s starting from 1977 ,the first year after Laudas accident...And tbh
I do not remember ANYTHING aqpart from :Hans Heyer startimng the race without having even qualified for the race and in 78 Lauda winning in a Brabham.
Definetyl these races were Processions and if i remeber correctly absolutely no overtaking in both races ....boredom in excess.
Back the it was more like who is running into technical troubles and I´m pretty sure a race with only one or NO! dnfs technical related wer not heard of still for a long long time...
Maybe some things were better back then ,racing was not....it was down to guys like villeneuve and arnoux to entertain us ..

As for the tyres -they spoke of wooden tyres ,if i remember coorrectly... as the tyres had no grip at all..


As for the teams starting to conserve tyres in qualy already...i wonder why it was not already best practise last year. what´s the issue about grid positions when Kimi is right at the back of Vettel and beating his teammate who decided to go a little more for grid position.
I think the real trouble is the tyre are not dgrading enough really - and show a more pronounced / marked cliff .that way around we would see more stops and more pushing by the drivers instead of the boffins trying to squeeze a few laps more out of the black gold.

My suggestion:
the time spent going through the pits should be the same as going at race speed from pit entry to exit on the track...reducing the time loss through the pits.
So it´s just:
do your boys get the job done EVERY time ?
How many sets of tyres are available?
who is the quickest driver?

There is no scope conserving the tyres ,only when your car eats tyres at an alarming rate and you don´t have enough of them to finish the race
or your pit does not have a well oiled process going.

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strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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The tires are dumb..I have said so and I say it again.
What they really need,,,IF they need two compounds,,Is one that would if treated right, make it the whole distance.
All this clag offline limiting passing is crazy in itself but tires that last only a few laps? Nuts!
IF one likes this phony crap then how bout taking a step back to tires with two compounds? A soft outer layer that wears away to reveal a harder compound.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

countersteer
countersteer
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Joined: 28 Apr 2007, 14:37
Location: Spring Hill, TN

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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What if we allowed the teams access to any of the range of dry tires on Friday, requiring them to choose two starting Saturday through the remainder of the weekend, possibly requiring them to keep a step between their prime tire choice and their option choice. This would add a bit more strategy into the weekend and provide for some to take a risk and get it "right".

Possibly a team would choose the softest tire and the hardest tire. Soft to qualify well with plans for an (early) single stop and finish out the race on the hard. While others would choose a more conventional two stop race with a more conservative tire choice.

This would also help those teams who struggle to maintain the spec tire choices but could possibly do well with a harder or softer tire.

Their would be a cost to Pirelli in terms of inventory and surplus at the end of the year but these costs could be easily calculated and some dispensation made.

Just a thought... don't flame me...

myurr
myurr
9
Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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countersteer wrote:What if we allowed the teams access to any of the range of dry tires on Friday, requiring them to choose two starting Saturday through the remainder of the weekend, possibly requiring them to keep a step between their prime tire choice and their option choice. This would add a bit more strategy into the weekend and provide for some to take a risk and get it "right".

Possibly a team would choose the softest tire and the hardest tire. Soft to qualify well with plans for an (early) single stop and finish out the race on the hard. While others would choose a more conventional two stop race with a more conservative tire choice.

This would also help those teams who struggle to maintain the spec tire choices but could possibly do well with a harder or softer tire.

Their would be a cost to Pirelli in terms of inventory and surplus at the end of the year but these costs could be easily calculated and some dispensation made.

Just a thought... don't flame me...
They'd need to bring many more tyres for this to work. I did suggest last year that it'd be a cool idea to let the teams nominate which tyres they'd like to bring for each event but was widely ignored :) But that would be workable. Perhaps McLaren could build a car that was softer on it's tyres so they'd bring softer faster compounds, whereas Ferrari made one that was harder on it's tyres but managed to bring them up to speed quicker and therefore still managed a good first lap, or vice versa. The problem with it though is that one team or another would luck into the perfect combination and would steal a march on everyone else, plus we'd see the teams settle into a fairly stagnent pattern after five or six races.

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banibhusan
1
Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 13:08

Re: these tryes.

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marcush. wrote:
i´m not sure if you really watched F1 back then.
I wasn't even born when GV and Lauda were racing, forget about watching it. And at that point of time, F1 was not broadcasted in my country I guess. It started only in the late 90's. :wink:

My point about the racing back in 80's was purely based on what I have read or heard people saying.

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
35
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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These tires are great! What ever Pirelli has done, it is confusing even the best teams. No one has a handle on then. Lotus fighting for a win, could the 'show' get much better?

Brian

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strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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hardingfv32 wrote:These tires are great! What ever Pirelli has done, it is confusing even the best teams. No one has a handle on then. Lotus fighting for a win, could the 'show' get much better?

Brian
The show? Who other than Bernie cares about the show?
As for the racing...It is very contrived and artificial and basically a joke. Is there action? Yes. Is there real racing? No.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Mashed
Mashed
0
Joined: 27 Mar 2012, 20:23

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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I agree with Schumi's comments and with most of the posts here. Teams spend huge amounts of money to build ridiculously fast cars and hire top racing drivers from around the world only to drive/"race" the car at a much slower pace than possible because the tires will degrade too quickly if they don't. I think all Pirelli need to do is tweak the compound to have a longer peak performance period with less degradation and then have the significant drop/cliff. I'm sure its not easy for them to do but this way the driver/team can choose between doing short/medium fast stints or long but slower stints. Just like in the refueling days minus the refueling.

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strad
117
Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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or let them have all the tires they want. :wink:
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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FFS what did the man say
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

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dave kumar
12
Joined: 26 Feb 2008, 14:16
Location: UK

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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M.Schumacher is quoted as saying the following,

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/04/p ... ife-tyres/
“The main thing I feel unhappy about is everyone has to drive well below a driver’s, and in particular, the car’s limits to maintain the tyres,”

“I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer, and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a safety car. I’m not happy about the situation, let’s see what happens in future. If it was a one-off car issue, you could say it’s up to us to deal with it.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17808768
"I had to drive at a pace to manage the tyres to finish with tyres left over," he said. "We should question whether that should be the case. It's unsatisfying and not what a Formula 1 event should be."

"If 80 or 90% complain, maybe Pirelli should think about it. I don't think it is right only one or two teams can handle it and the rest struggle so much."
Formerly known as senna-toleman

Mashed
Mashed
0
Joined: 27 Mar 2012, 20:23

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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strad wrote:or let them have all the tires they want. :wink:
Maybe but i think the current compound would last less than 10 laps on an all out fast stint. so if they had unlimited amount of tires we would probably see 5-6 pit stops per race.

Has anybody seen any data with the current compound on how the tires hold up on a all out fast lap stint?

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
35
Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Mashed wrote:I agree with Schumi's comments and with most of the posts here. Teams spend huge amounts of money to build ridiculously fast cars and hire top racing drivers from around the world only to drive/"race" the car at a much slower pace than possible because the tires will degrade too quickly if they don't...
The tires are the same for everyone. Maybe they need to build the cars so they can adapt to these tires more easily.

Brian