Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[mcalex]

These years tires do not even last one all-out lap.
Nico's words ...

[basrawi]

well to be honest the new tyres sucks. they created an endurance formula feel to the racing. Drivers have one opportunity per stint to push and overtake, then they go into endurance racing mode!

This sucks! 1996 to 2003 were 10000% better

[mcalex]

I agree.The softer tire should give max.performance for 7-10 laps and start to lose performance and the harder maybe 15-20 laps.
I want to see racing not tyre managing.

[gonzo_sbz]

Pirelli aim was to make it harder to predict tire performance and yes they succeded. It´s very much more difficult, so difficult that nobody really knows.
The window the tire operates in is so narrow so it´s more like a lotto who manage it best!
And that factor alone brings some more show to the game! But it´s not a show of motor racing! It´s artificial and pointing in wrong direction!

Maybe i´m stupid but couldn´t they just made the gap between 2011 tires bigger?

I have no problem with "the cliff" other than it comes immediately after pushing one lap!

[snoop1050]

martin brundles thoughts

In eight days we have had two great races largely driven by the degradation and resultant strategy dilemmas around the Pirelli tyres. In our show I expressed an opinion that whilst I'm really enjoying the races I wouldn't want F1 to become only about the tyres. I hadn't realised that Michael Schumacher was about to launch a broadside at the difficulty of managing the narrow window of performance and the high drop off of the tyre grip.

On the journey home I was talking with two F1 drivers, a world champion and a multiple race winner, and they had very similar concerns to Michael in that they can't push the cars anywhere near their limits. 'Physically my granny could drive the race' quipped one to underline how far away from the limits they are.

Pirelli have done a great job for F1 and judging by audience figures and comments the fans love this style of unpredictable racing. But it does become confusing when we have drivers popping up out of the blue with a fast but unrepeatable lap time in a session, and fancied runners simply disappearing backwards in the race. We need to see pure skill, speed and pace win through too, and not simply just applaud those who could tip toe the best or find the right set-up sweetspot on the day. There is room for both.

[sAx]

It just boils down to a simple question. How good the racing was in 2010?

If you look back at 2010 season, every single team, driver and fan criticised the tyres because they could virtually last the whole race. The only overtaking you would see is at the start of the race or may be pitstops(which were just one or rarely 2). And that's it!!

You can argue to bring back the refueling, but with the current cost restriction, it's clearly not possible. Well racing back in the 80's were much more fun without refueling. They didn't have to save the tyres. They were just pushing to the limit all the time. What has made the difference? Yes, it's aerodynamics, ground effect, bla bla bla!! Limit that and you can have good racing again.

i´m not sure if you really watched F1 back then.

....it was down to guys like villeneuve and arnoux to entertain us ..

Piquet's light running, in race refuelling BT50 was also good fun

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr2W5U_Svxk[/youtube]

sAx

[LionKing]

I agree with Schumi's comments and with most of the posts here. Teams spend huge amounts of money to build ridiculously fast cars and hire top racing drivers from around the world only to drive/"race" the car at a much slower pace than possible because the tires will degrade too quickly if they don't...

The tires are the same for everyone. Maybe they need to build the cars so they can adapt to these tires more easily.

Brian

Somebody in another from made a good joke about the tires being the same for everyone point. Would snow chains on tires be OK in F1 cars, since it will be the same for everyone???

Schumacher is not complaining about fairness but he is complaining about the crappy tires which does not allow sustained real racing.

I also totally agree with Micheal's comment about these Pirellis. Although the tires are creating some kind of randomness effect and hence creating some suspense in races. This is not how the pinnacle of motor sports should be.

This is what I wrote in that forum:
"If a driver is working his butt of and driving 0.3sec faster than the guy behind, in 15 laps he will open up a gap of 4.5 seconds. But just pitting one lap earlier or later makes a difference of 3-4 seconds. It is like measuring something delicate with a very coarse measurement device. This "tire noise" in the race dominate whatever the difference the drivers can make with their driving. There are only a few tenths between the drivers on the grid, compared to multiple seconds a tire condition difference can induce.

It can also discourage the overtake attempts at non-DRS locations. If you use your tire too much to overtake the car in front you will pay the price with a overall slower stint.

I remember F1 times when drivers were able to set a sequence of very fast laps before the pit stops. (Of course this was in refueling era). However I believe that, even if refueling were to return, there is no way that with these weak tires the drivers will be able to set these fast lap at the end of stints."

[Lycoming]

Refuelling would reduce the load on the tyres, at least in the first few stints. Fundamentally though, I think they made them a but too soft this year.

My understanding was that they kept the supersoft the same and moved everything else softer to compensate. At the end of 2011, it was clear that the teams had a much better understanding of how to conserve the tyres and they needed to go somewhat softer to keep both 2 and 3 stop strategies viable at most venues. In addition, the hard tyres were probably a bit too hard, as people had difficulty getting it to work.

I suspect given the feedback that they will go for more durability next year, in addition to trying to reduce the marbling and perhaps having a somewhat wider operating window, though I'm not entirely sure I would like to see that last one.

[Belatti]

Somebody tell me how does some teams / drivers in some occasions manage to make tyres last, being Sauber the most evident team and Perez the most evident driver...

If I run a team in 2012 I would fire some aerodynamicists and hire more tyre experts than Pirelli itself.

If someone knows, I would like to know when does Pirelli gives you "your" tires in the weekend and how many time does a F1 team has the rubbers in its hands...

[marcush.]

Somebody tell me how does some teams / drivers in some occasions manage to make tyres last, being Sauber the most evident team and Perez the most evident driver...

If I run a team in 2012 I would fire some aerodynamicists and hire more tyre experts than Pirelli itself.

If someone knows, I would like to know when does Pirelli gives you "your" tires in the weekend and how many time does a F1 team has the rubbers in its hands...

My thoughts.
Pat Symmonds has written some stuff about tyres on Racetech mag and if you read that you know Tyre conditoning overnight is one of the variables you got in hand.

all this is of course a high risk activity especially at the beginning of the race.
My personal experience with pirelli is-their tyres are extremely sensitive to how you you warm them up (out lap) -but only on certain tracks .What worked in Misano like a bullet did not make any measurable difference in silverstone -so even in Ferrari challenge the Tyre was a bag of surprises every weekend...

[rakes]

You'd think that tires would get better every year, but with these artificial and stupid rules they just get worse and worse. It makes no sense if you ask me.

I'm sure their intentions were good even with these rules, but not even the audience seems to like them.

[gonzo_sbz]

This is what is all about as LionKing writes;

Schumacher is not complaining about fairness but he is complaining about the crappy tires which does not allow sustained real racing.

If that´s a fact, F1 are on deep water!

[Richard]

Perhaps the tyres are little too sensitive this year. However the ever lasting Bridgestones were just as bad. You could watch just the first 2 laps and pretty much know the order for the final laps.

The problem is the reliability and consistency of the cars, they are able to put in lap after lap without variation or failure. Refuelling is banned so that leaves the tyres as the only variable left.

In the past drivers were nursing the whole car not just the tyres. They were worried about gearboxes, engines, hydraulics, etc. They also had to avoid a lot more crashes. In the 80's & 90's, 50% of cars on the grid failed to make it to the finish line. When you have half the cars failing to finish then tyres are the least of your problem.

Schumacher seems to have forgotten that, but he had the luxury of the most reliable car on the grid and a clear road ahead. His peers probably remember nursing cars and struggling to avoid crashes more than drivers do nowadays. tyres were a less dominant issue.

Its only in the last decade that cars have become reliable, we have fewer crashes and absolute speed has became such as dominating factor. That's why tyres are such a hot topic, its the only thing standing in the way of perfection. Unfortunately the perfect ever lasting racing tyre doesn't leads to terrible racing.

---

Data - DNF as % of cars on starting grid (inc mech failure and crashes)
1984: 54%
1989: 51%
1999: 45%
2003: 32%
2006: 30%
2008: 24%
2009: 20%
2011: 18%

[gonzo_sbz]

Well, F1 history is one thing and we shall not forget about it. But now we talking F1 2012 and what to do with latest tire technology! In my world it´s not impossible to produce a tire that don´t degrade that fast it does this year, whatever history!
(I don´t think Schumacher forgot how it was before)

[Richard]

Gonzo - I was putting into into context for those saying that in the old days a driver would drive as fast as possible all the time. No they didn't, they couldn't because the car would fail to finish.

Secondly, if we went back to the everlasting Bridgetones we'd have the most boring races imaginable because previously significant variables are now constant.