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FIA bans innovative damper system

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Oh, and BTW (I think I should open a thread on this, I had no comments last time I posted this same thing): have you heard of the Bose suspension? I'd bet springs and dampers are as good as dead and we'll have one in our cars around 2020...
I've seen the video of the lexus jumping over bumps, it was hilarious. This thing's been around for years now, with no takers. Unfortunately, being technically superior (think Citroen Hydramatic) doesn't mean everybody will rush out to adopt it. And think how many speed bumps will be made obsolete overnight!
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mcdenife
mcdenife
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zac510 wrote:
You can't say it doesn't have an influence aerodynamically.. but it sets a horrendous precedent.
using the FIA's argument re the influence on aero, doesnt the suspension geometry also influence the aerodynamics?
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.
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johny
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read here

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=28765

the reason is that all parts of the car must be "rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car"
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zac510
zac510
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 12:58

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mcdenife wrote:zac510 wrote:
You can't say it doesn't have an influence aerodynamically.. but it sets a horrendous precedent.
using the FIA's argument re the influence on aero, doesnt the suspension geometry also influence the aerodynamics?
Yes, that's why it is a dangerous precedent!
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manchild
manchild
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But that is not expensive technology and it is not a driver aid! Why are they banning it? :evil:
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johny
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following that rule you can even ban suspensions, every part of the car has influence on aerodinamics (tyres also have influence)
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mcdenife
mcdenife
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Johny wrote:
"rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car" and "must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car"
and
following that rule you can even ban suspensions, every part of the car has influence on aerodinamics (tyres also have influence)
pardon my ignorance but dont dampers also form part of the geometry, ie are there no other dampers on an F1 cars? because if there are then surely the same rule should apply.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.
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Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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manchild wrote:But that is not expensive technology and it is not a driver aid! Why are they banning it? :evil:
Cornering speeds? :shock:
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis
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manchild
manchild
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Ignis Fatuus wrote:Cornering speeds? :shock:
Yes but the main reason why cornering speeds have increased this season is re-introduction of tyre change (softer compounds). That was done by FIA and here we go again in circle. FIA made a mess imposing too many regulations over the years without thinking them over and now they introduce new regs. to kill unwanted effects of previous regs. and so on… To me that seams to be never-ending story and a pathetic one.
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Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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manchild wrote:
Ignis Fatuus wrote:Cornering speeds? :shock:
Yes but the main reason why cornering speeds have increased this season is re-introduction of tyre change (softer compounds). That was done by FIA and here we go again in circle. FIA made a mess imposing too many regulations over the years without thinking them over and now they introduce new regs. to kill unwanted effects of previous regs. and so on… To me that seams to be never-ending story and a pathetic one.
I have to agree. And it is rising the costs quite nicely too... to what avail?

It seems to me that in the coming days most of the excitement in F1 will come from this: "What parts of the car is FIA going to ban this week?" :evil:
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis
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dumrick
dumrick
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Ciro Pabón wrote:Mates, I do not know if I am reading too much into this, but they do not call the dampers aerodynamic devices. FIA says they "influence" the aerodynamic behaviour. Those are two different things.

Actually, I can't see how they influence it. Any ideas? Besides than the one that the wings are not "fluttering" over kerbs because the mass dampers keep them horizontal... If this is the reason, they could forbid regular dampers.
FIA's logic is very twisted. They say the mass is moveable, because it moves independently of the sprung or unsprung mass (which is not the case of conventional dampers) and influences aerodynamics, therefore they are a moveable aerodynamic device. Logically, it may have some sense, but it's an abusive extension of the rules, in my oppinion.
Ciro Pabón wrote:Oh, and BTW (I think I should open a thread on this, I had no comments last time I posted this same thing): have you heard of the Bose suspension? I'd bet springs and dampers are as good as dead and we'll have one in our cars around 2020...
Working in the auto industry, I would hardly be convinced by such a system. Suspension is a safety relevant system and that system is all about software and actuators. I prefer by far smart passive systems.
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RacingManiac
RacingManiac
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 02:29

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johny wrote:following that rule you can even ban suspensions, every part of the car has influence on aerodinamics (tyres also have influence)
Suspension is unsprung.....
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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

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Frenchblock wrote:aero influences at low speed? where?

aerodynamics start to woks over 100kms /h!

dampers are to limit vibrations while pushing kerbs!

uhh where to begin areo comes into play much below 100km

and dampers do much more than limit vibrations while pushing kerbs
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Frenchblock
Frenchblock
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Joined: 30 Mar 2006, 03:59

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flynfrog wrote:
Frenchblock wrote:aero influences at low speed? where?

aerodynamics start to woks over 100kms /h!

dampers are to limit vibrations while pushing kerbs!

uhh where to begin areo comes into play much below 100km

and dampers do much more than limit vibrations while pushing kerbs
under 100kms/h aero efficience is low, first!

second, the 3.15 article is all about aero, aero mean air, aero is exterior of the car to influence air streams to get things from, damper receive no air being inside the nose!

dampers are made to limit vibrations and stabilse the front of the car as suspenssion doing, so what king of aero rules could forbid a part that isn't receive air ?

FIA can't use 3.15 to the damper system, and renault and friends will not remove thier stuff, FIA site didn't report about it yet, and all teams involved will ask to the FIA consil to clear this false and idiot decision from whiting!
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SuperSonic
SuperSonic
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004, 02:16

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Frenchblock, you're absolutely right.

3.15 is (obviously) under Article 3, which is entitled "Bodywork and Dimensions".

Bodywork is:

1.4 Bodywork :
All entirely sprung parts of the car in contact with the external air stream, except cameras and the parts
definitely associated with the mechanical functioning of the engine, transmission and running gear.
Airboxes, radiators and engine exhausts are considered to be part of the bodywork.


Oh, FIA... :roll:
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