Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[mcalex]

I can't agree.
The best cars would also be the fastest und with DRS now you can overtake more easily.

It's a shame that a F1 driver cannot push the car to limit in one single lap in the race because then he loses 10x more time ( courtesy of tyres losing the grip if you challenge them to the max. ) that he gains

I want to see who can drive the fastest , not who conserves his tires the best.

[mzivtins]

Pirelli is adamant that the best drivers and teams will still win in Formula 1 this year, despite the tyres playing a more important role in the outcome of races.

Many people - including team principals, drivers and engineers – think that getting the 2012 tyres into the right operating window is now essential for success in F1.

I think this sounds a bit stupid... i'm one for hard facts, and where hard facts don't exist i go for an opinion based on events up till now, and i would say, looking at the past 4 races, it has already played a massive part above and beyond the drivers and teams performance in their racing.

We can say that forever lasting tyres make things boring, but we are getting to the same thing now in the fact we cannot see drivers make the most of thier cars to pass multiple vehicles.

The more i think about this whole issue, the more clear it becomes as to why some people failed where you expected good results, and i agree that for one or two laps of hard HARD pushing, you fall back by a much greater distance due to pathetic tyre wear... its simple, if these tyres are designed to last for 20 laps... then that should at least be 15 laps of utter tyre rape within those 20 laps!

[LionKing]

Perhaps the tyres are little too sensitive this year. However the ever lasting Bridgestones were just as bad. You could watch just the first 2 laps and pretty much know the order for the final laps.

Schumacher seems to have forgotten that, but he had the luxury of the most reliable car on the grid and a clear road ahead. His peers probably remember nursing cars and struggling to avoid crashes more than drivers do nowadays. tyres were a less dominant issue.

The ever lasting Brigdestone wasn't the main problem to overtaking. We did not have the DRS in 2010. They made the regulations a bit easier to follow the cars in front and easier to pass. In Bahrain in one of the laps there was 30km/hr difference between Vettel's car and Kimi's Lotus at the end of the straight.

As a side issue, I think they need to keep the number of engines per season rule but abandon the rpm limit. If a driver decides to use higher revs at certain points of the race, let him. And if because of this he would need more engines in the end, he will be hit 10 place grid penalties anyway. I also miss the time when the cars were more powerful, the cars rarely have a spin these days...

Secondly, I also don't think the guy who was stuck at fifth gear a good portion of the race and came in second forgot how it was like before. (or that he had his leg broken when the brakes failed, or that he lost his title chance at Suzuka when the engine expired, etc...)

[Richard]

if these tyres are designed to last for 20 laps... then that should at least be 15 laps of utter tyre rape within those 20 laps!

I agree, that should be the optimum. A Sauber could stretch that to 30 laps, while Hamilton would have a pit stop every 15 laps. (exaggerating to illustrate the point)

I also miss the time when the cars were more powerful, the cars rarely have a spin these days...

Without wanting to go too far to off topic, but that's all down to aero (and some say auto boxes too

Its unfortunate that tyres seem to be the only thing we have left to challenge the drivers & teams in how they handle unpredictable circumstances.

[mzivtins]

Would you agree from a Hamilton perspective, his driving style tends to wear the tyres more than say, Perez?

I think Pirelli have it in them to add a level of perfection in the tyres, enough to allow personal driving styles to shine through in either manner and also provide the tastefull strategy hunting that we see... such a shame this is not the case in 2012 it seems

With rear tyres being wider this year (to add more mechanical grip retaliation to the banning of EBD's) do you think this could specifically have a detrimental affect (in terms of overheating) considering pirelli have said the cars have almost the same level of DF on the rear as last year? (Or so they say) Or would you say the rears need to be a further 50mm wider?

[myurr]

Would you agree from a Hamilton perspective, his driving style tends to wear the tyres more than say, Perez?

I think Pirelli have it in them to add a level of perfection in the tyres, enough to allow personal driving styles to shine through in either manner and also provide the tastefull strategy hunting that we see... such a shame this is not the case in 2012 it seems

With rear tyres being wider this year (to add more mechanical grip retaliation to the banning of EBD's) do you think this could specifically have a detrimental affect (in terms of overheating) considering pirelli have said the cars have almost the same level of DF on the rear as last year? (Or so they say) Or would you say the rears need to be a further 50mm wider?

I think the problem with the tyres isn't that they wear or degrade, which is actually a good thing so that you need to have pitstops and have variations in pace throughout the race, but that the tyres wear disproportionately when the drivers push so that the faster the try and go the more the tyres degrade and ultimately the slower they end up being.

This is what leads to the problems overtaking, where they overheat the tyres getting past a driver and then have to nurse them for the rest of the stint. I'd rather have tyres that wear steadily but allow the drivers to lean on them as much as they want, going for lap times lap after lap until they run out of rubber after 10 - 20 laps.

[Dragonfly]

I am more and more inclined to think that there will be some concealed change in the tyres and the resulting effect be declared as a result of the teams getting on top of tyre management.

[cheapracer]

its simple, if these tyres are designed to last for 20 laps... then that should at least be 15 laps of utter tyre rape within those 20 laps!

100% agree although I would like to see cars just struggle to get to halfway on softs or a few laps short of the whole race on hards - that combo has produced great racing in the past and gives lower teams a chance to get some airtime via choosing hards and being up front for a few laps.

Pirelli won't do anything though because they will be loving the center of attention they are getting.

I'm guessing many drivers feel the same as MS but MS doesn't have a future in F1 so doesn't have to suck it in.

[mzivtins]

its simple, if these tyres are designed to last for 20 laps... then that should at least be 15 laps of utter tyre rape within those 20 laps!

100% agree although I would like to see cars just struggle to get to halfway on softs or a few laps short of the whole race on hards - that combo has produced great racing in the past and gives lower teams a chance to get some airtime via choosing hards and being up front for a few laps.

Pirelli won't do anything though because they will be loving the center of attention they are getting.

I'm guessing many drivers feel the same as MS but MS doesn't have a future in F1 so doesn't have to suck it in.

Agree on points about Pirelli...

For MSC though, i really see him becoming some sort of full time guy at mercGP outside of the car when he finally gives the seat up to another german
I'm just glad he has enough balls to come out and say these things that NEED to be said... still a far cry of having someone like an old school Colin Edwards in his WSB days though

[Mashed]

its simple, if these tyres are designed to last for 20 laps... then that should at least be 15 laps of utter tyre rape within those 20 laps!

Exactly what I'm thinking + the cliff to ensure pit stops. All Pirelli need to do is tweak the compound.

[Lycoming]

As a side issue, I think they need to keep the number of engines per season rule but abandon the rpm limit. If a driver decides to use higher revs at certain points of the race, let him. And if because of this he would need more engines in the end, he will be hit 10 place grid penalties anyway. I also miss the time when the cars were more powerful, the cars rarely have a spin these days...

...But they already do this. You can't run the whole season at 18000 RPM, its likely that an engine failure will occur.

[strad]

Pirelli won't do anything though because they will be loving the center of attention they are getting.

Everyone seems to forget they were asked to design the tire this way. The FIA wanted the tires to wear out quickly.
We got just what was asked for and it's stupid and screwed up.

[Nando]

Everyone seems to forget they were asked to design the tire this way. The FIA wanted the tires to wear out quickly.
We got just what was asked for and it's stupid and screwed up.

I´m sure they did not ask for tires which had performance for one lap then they had to be nurtured for 10 more laps.

Right now in the races the drivers are not racing. They are following a delta on their wheel which in my opinion isn´t racing.

They should create a tire that has excellent grip for 10-15 laps then start to rapidly degrade.

Now it´s 1 lap of excellent grip.

Basically a bridgestone with half the life-length.

[gonzo_sbz]

Gonzo - I was putting into into context for those saying that in the old days a driver would drive as fast as possible all the time. No they didn't, they couldn't because the car would fail to finish.

Secondly, if we went back to the everlasting Bridgetones we'd have the most boring races imaginable because previously significant variables are now constant.

- Richard i´m, sure you are right, but why relate to history. We don´t have to choose between stone hard Bridgestones and tires that degrades faster than ever. There must be something between that works ok. Why the fuzz about defending Pirellis bad work? They done bad so far this year, that´s nothing to it! And they will do better in future!

[raymondu999]

I personally don't mind the way things are currently. I think the thing is that drivers have to find how to "maximise" a stint - get the best compromise of distance vs pace on each set of tyres.

What I DON'T like is the marbles, and the sweetspot issues. Tyres shouldn't be a performance differentiator IMO - there shouldn't be a sweetspot at all IMO. It seems this year that a midfield team who got their tyres spot on has better pace than a top team who has got their tyres wrong. Tyres should be just the thing where the cars roll on - not the thing determining the absolute pace of the car, except in terms of tyre wear/degradation.