Ferrari F2012

[f1316]

This is the best I can do with the pictures available.



@f1316 the larger the rake, the more the rear of the car is up in the air and the more the front of the car is closer to the ground. Look at the angle of the floor from back to front.

Ah, yes, now I see it! Thank you very much for that.

I was looking at the front and back wings and, aside from the Ferrari front wing being a bit higher, I was struggling to see much difference. However, looking at the middle section of the RB, I can now see the angle we're talking about. Cheers!

*edit: You might say that the very fact that the Ferrari's front wing looked higher was evidence enough, but what I was really looking for was something that looked *angled*. Anyway, I see it now.

[tok-tokkie]

In the picture of the 3 complete cars it is extraordinary how high the Ferrari front wing is off the track compared to the Mercedes & Red Bull. I expect comments about camera angle etc but compare them against the front wheels also.

[amouzouris]

In the picture of the 3 complete cars it is extraordinary how high the Ferrari front wing is off the track compared to the Mercedes & Red Bull. I expect comments about camera angle etc but compare them against the front wheels also.

yes..it is very high...and i believe linked to the pitch sensitivity problems of the f2012

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Tok-tokkie I can link to the 3 original pictures. All were taken on Saturday I believe and the shots are taken in the exact same spot, between two specific trees. The original high res links are below.
Yes it is quite interesting the F2012 FW is much higher off the ground than the others. The lack of being able to set the car up the way they would like has to be hurting performance. Hopefully fixed soon.

Red Bull
Ferrari
Lotus

Rake in Jerez



On a side note, here's a great picture of the unique Ferrari Integral Wheel-Nut Gun


picture via Scarbs & Michael D

[motobaleno]

I think the primary reason for running higher rake is to maximise DF generated by the diffuser if you can seal it with exhaust gas, no?

I think that's exactly the opposite
more rake=more front downforce and less understeer but at the expenses of a lower rear downforce that you have to compensate by a particularly efficient diffusor. so, if you don't have a particularly efficient rear aero (like ferrari) you can't use as much rake as your opponents

[Nando]

If you just increase rake then you will create less downforce at the rear.
If you manage to seal it with exhaust gases then you will create more downforce.

The bonus is that the front wing gets closer to the ground which means more downforce.

So it´s a win-win situation if you can seal the diffuser.

Edit: added "at the rear"

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I think the primary reason for running higher rake is to maximise DF generated by the diffuser if you can seal it with exhaust gas, no?

I think that's exactly the opposite
more rake=more front downforce and less understeer but at the expenses of a lower rear downforce that you have to compensate by a particularly efficient diffusor. so, if you don't have a particularly efficient rear aero (like ferrari) you can't use as much rake as your opponents

The lower the FW is to the ground, the more DF it's going to make. However the higher the rear of the car, there is a larger volume of air flowing through the diffuser. Running a large rake has more than just one effect. Although part of this effect is diminished if you can't "seal" the diffuser like they did last year.

[Lycoming]

also note that rake does not inherently increase front downforce.

Rake is the result of a difference between front and rear ride heights. I can run more rake, then jack up the front, and have no net change in downforce at the front by maintaining the same front ride height with more rake.

Thats, of course, neglecting the effect of the change in angle of attack, but this is minute compared to the difference made by very small changes in ride height.

[kebab]

I think the primary reason for running higher rake is to maximise DF generated by the diffuser if you can seal it with exhaust gas, no?

I think that's exactly the opposite
more rake=more front downforce and less understeer but at the expenses of a lower rear downforce that you have to compensate by a particularly efficient diffusor. so, if you don't have a particularly efficient rear aero (like ferrari) you can't use as much rake as your opponents

The lower the FW is to the ground, the more DF it's going to make. However the higher the rear of the car, there is a larger volume of air flowing through the diffuser. Running a large rake has more than just one effect. Although part of this effect is diminished if you can't "seal" the diffuser like they did last year.

Exactly.

[aral]

also note that rake does not inherently increase front downforce.

Rake is the result of a difference between front and rear ride heights. I can run more rake, then jack up the front, and have no net change in downforce at the front by maintaining the same front ride height with more rake.

Thats, of course, neglecting the effect of the change in angle of attack, but this is minute compared to the difference made by very small changes in ride height.

Rake will affect the downforce, as the top surfaces of the car are at a different angle to the airflow, than if the car was level. Also, depending on the static angle of the front wing, adding rake could allow a shallower angle to the wing.
If the car is designed without rake, and then rake is added, the effects will be different. Altering the rake, (which can be done throughout a race weekend) will provide different parameters.

[F1.Ru]

I know having the cars static is the best way to compare rake, but it's almost impossible to get the cars still and the picture taken from the exact same spot. So I have some comparison pics taken from the exact same spot on straights, not going in to turns or anything. You can tell the RB8 is running much more rake than the F2012. The F2012 ran as much as the RB8, but only in pre-season testing. [........]

Hey i didn't say that u said anything wrong.... rather i said that for the clarification purpose.... [TBH i can't even able to watch the race as it is office time for me... but indeed i enjoyed ur comment nd pic]

Whatever i think that ur point of having less rake that other is clear in those pic .....





though i believe that Ferrari was able to extract more rake in the recent races then that it was in Pre-season testing [Barcelona].........but it is nothing compared to the launch version or the Jerze version, but it improved i think.....

[xpensive]

Another interesting comparison with the above pics is how much more the RBR front wing is bending, almost banana-style.

The F2012 wing is almost flat by comparison.

I tried to find a reason to make a derogatory comment on that front suspension as well, but I failed miserably.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Another interesting comparison with the above pics is how much more the RBR front wing is bending, almost banana-style.

The F2012 wing is almost flat by comparison.

I tried to find a reason to make a derogatory comment on that front suspension as well, but I failed miserably.

Of course you tried X. But yes indeed about the FW. It's awfully high off the ground and unlike some of the other cars so far this year, doesn't seem to flex one bit. Looks like the rules changes are hurting some more than others.

How To Simulate Red Bull Front Wing

[radosav]

Another interesting comparison with the above pics is how much more the RBR front wing is bending, almost banana-style.

The F2012 wing is almost flat by comparison.

I tried to find a reason to make a derogatory comment on that front suspension as well, but I failed miserably.

Of course you tried X. But yes indeed about the FW. It's awfully high off the ground and unlike some of the other cars so far this year, doesn't seem to flex one bit. Looks like the rules changes are hurting some more than others.

How To Simulate Red Bull Front Wing

RB wing is bending a litle bit more that Ferrari's, but what is the point in front wing flexin now when EBDs are banned? when EBD was in use it gave a lot of rear downforce, a lot more than they had in front, so to use it most effectively they needed more front downforce to balance the car and use EBD at maximum.
with EBD gone, front downforce isn't problem, but to find rear downforce is tricky.

[Afterburner]

From those images it seems pretty obvious reb bull is carrying more front wing and less rear wing compared to the ferrari, is ferrari top speed problem related to using more wing or is his aero naturally draggy?