Ferrari F2012

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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FakeAlonso
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:53

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Its a shame for Ferrari to still playing with the Acer ducts and looks like they have wasted two days. Even mid-field teams like TOrro Rosso, Sauber, Force India, Caterham are experimenting with Macca style exhaust.

Even the rumors that they are bringing something tonight... is a bit weird, they are waiting for four months for this test and what they do play around with Acer ducts.

I hope they bring something different tomorrow because I don't believe any solutions with the Acer ducts will be as competitive has Macca or Redbul/Sauber solution.

bhall
bhall
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Ferrari F2012

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FakeAlonso wrote:[...]I don't believe any solutions with the Acer ducts will be as competitive has Macca or Redbul/Sauber solution.
Those solutions are only guaranteed to work for McLaren, Sauber and Red Bull. Like everything else on an F1 car, the exhaust is dependent upon other factors on the car if it's to work properly.

The Red Bull solution in particular would require a dramatic change in the F2012's cooling. A change in cooling would require a dramatic change to the side pods. A dramatic change of the side pods would require a change in the aerodynamics under the engine... See where I'm going with this?

Parts simply don't operate in isolation of others. An F1 car is a system, not a condition.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Chuckjr wrote:

Crucial Extreme, has continually and emphatically stated that this acer system is what they are going with.
Mate I've said I hope we are going with an Acer Duct solution. I would like to see the team keep the exhaust original and not copy another team. But I've said which ever exhaust we go with, I just want it to work.
Right now there's no confirmation which route the team will go. It may be a modified version of the original exhaust, Sauber style, McLaren style, or something completely new and different.

Yesterday we experimented with something different for data and a baseline with it. Today we used the exhaust we've used pretty much all year, for data on it. Tomorrow we "should" see something new for data on it. There's a method to testing. Have a look at this article from former Ferrari Engineer Luigi Mazzola who ran the test team during the glory days. he explains how to test a car.

http://www.blogf1.it/2012/04/30/ecco-co ... formula-1/

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FakeAlonso
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:53

Re: Ferrari F2012

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bhallg2k wrote:
FakeAlonso wrote:[...]I don't believe any solutions with the Acer ducts will be as competitive has Macca or Redbul/Sauber solution.
Those solutions are only guaranteed to work for McLaren, Sauber and Red Bull. Like everything else on an F1 car, the exhaust is dependent upon other factors on the car if it's to work properly.

The Red Bull solution in particular would require a dramatic change in the F2012's cooling. A change in cooling would require a dramatic change to the side pods. A dramatic change of the side pods would require a change in the aerodynamics under the engine... See where I'm going with this?

Parts simply don't operate in isolation of others. An F1 car is a system, not a condition.

I get your point. They were working with this car since last July. They could have easily worked on two specs like redbull. Torro Rosso in the previews races had the most similar exhaust solution as Ferrari and today they were experimenting the Macca way. So don't think they have to make massive changes to experiment. Testing is for this reasons.

I think the F1 system you talk about is hard for Ferrari to justify it self on that argument.

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Quote from Felipe on the F2012:

"It is always better to run the new parts, but the programme was like that for Fernando to try the new exhaust yesterday and for me to try the old one today to do the back-to-back," said the Brazilian.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99303


Maybe we have seen the new exhaust already.

alogoc
alogoc
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 23:54

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Quote from Felipe on the F2012:

"It is always better to run the new parts, but the programme was like that for Fernando to try the new exhaust yesterday and for me to try the old one today to do the back-to-back," said the Brazilian.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99303


Maybe we have seen the new exhaust already.

well yes as i said,the exhaust we saw yesterday is new exhaust of course they will patch the area of bodywork araound it a bit,only question is what will they use for coanda/downwash that steal pipe or that black thing most teams using now!!!
THE F2012!
THE CAR THAN WON 2012 WORLD F1 CHAMPIONSHIP WHIT A TILTED ENGINE!

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Joined: 16 Oct 2011, 00:13
Location: Charlotte

Re: Ferrari F2012

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New part today in Mugello

Image

Crucial_Xtreme
Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Ferrari F2012

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f300v10
f300v10
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Joined: 22 Mar 2012, 17:13

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Quote from Felipe on the F2012:

"It is always better to run the new parts, but the programme was like that for Fernando to try the new exhaust yesterday and for me to try the old one today to do the back-to-back," said the Brazilian.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99303


Maybe we have seen the new exhaust already.
I will be sorely disappointed if that turns out to be the case. The 'new' exhaust sure looked like the original exhaust with about 6 inches more length on the lower side 'ramp' to get more coanda effect. Did it really take 2 months of work to develop that 'solution'? I know there were also some changes to the floor, but it sure seems like they could have tried such a solution out prior to the first race. Given the time they have taken to develop the updates I was/am expecting more.

bhall
bhall
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Ferrari F2012

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FakeAlonso wrote:I get your point. They were working with this car since last July. They could have easily worked on two specs like redbull. Torro Rosso in the previews races had the most similar exhaust solution as Ferrari and today they were experimenting the Macca way. So don't think they have to make massive changes to experiment. Testing is for this reasons.

I think the F1 system you talk about is hard for Ferrari to justify it self on that argument.
I'm still not entirely convinced that the 2012 regulations even allow for exhaust gasses to bring performance gains. Teams are going through them as if they're disposable, all in an effort to find something that works. That then leads me to believe that nothing really works.

That said, I'm almost positive that Ferrari's much-discussed move toward a more aggressive car was less to do with the car itself and more to do with the methodology behind its design. After they found the solution that they thought would give them the best chance to succeed, they put all of their eggs in that basket as fast as they could.

Had it worked, Ferrari likely would have been dominant this year, or so they thought, because they'd be that much further ahead of their rivals in terms of development. But, because it didn't work, they've got A LOT of catching up to do.

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FakeAlonso
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:53

Re: Ferrari F2012

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f300v10 wrote:
Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Quote from Felipe on the F2012:

"It is always better to run the new parts, but the programme was like that for Fernando to try the new exhaust yesterday and for me to try the old one today to do the back-to-back," said the Brazilian.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99303


Maybe we have seen the new exhaust already.
I will be sorely disappointed if that turns out to be the case. The 'new' exhaust sure looked like the original exhaust with about 6 inches more length on the lower side 'ramp' to get more coanda effect. Did it really take 2 months of work to develop that 'solution'? I know there were also some changes to the floor, but it sure seems like they could have tried such a solution out prior to the first race. Given the time they have taken to develop the updates I was/am expecting more.

Lets wait and see what they bring tomorrow. If nothing changes this year most probably will be lost.

zyphro
zyphro
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Joined: 02 May 2012, 16:33

Re: Ferrari F2012

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I don't see why they continue trying the exhaust solutions to be honest; it's not the key to this year.

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FakeAlonso
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Joined: 08 Mar 2012, 16:53

Re: Ferrari F2012

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Interesting article about the "Caos" Ferrari.

http://www.blogf1.it/2012/05/02/ferrari ... ca-macche/

alogoc
alogoc
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 23:54

Re: Ferrari F2012

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zyphro wrote:I don't see why they continue trying the exhaust solutions to be honest; it's not the key to this year.
yes it is!big time!
THE F2012!
THE CAR THAN WON 2012 WORLD F1 CHAMPIONSHIP WHIT A TILTED ENGINE!

hardingfv32
hardingfv32
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Joined: 03 Apr 2011, 19:42

Re: Ferrari F2012

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alogoc wrote:yes it is!big time!
Please demonstrate why?

Brian