Diagonal racing lines

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Diagonal racing lines

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This thread is to discuss straights which are ended and started by one right corner, and one left corner.

Something like the two Malaysian straights, or the stretch between Parabolica and Ascar. Has to be said both are different too, as the Ascari exit is full throttle, while in Malaysia it's still traction limited.

In said corners, because you want to maximise the exit of the corner leading to the straight, and the entry of the following corner, you'll undoubtedly have to make a diagonal move across from one side of the track to the other. When do you folks think is the optimal time for the move? For the sake of this discussion let's discuss more on the actual technique and it's effects rather than bumps (some circuits you take a weird line for the diagonal due to bumps in the circuit)

I've heard many different techniques. On track days I personally exit onto the straight, then once I'm full throttle I point the car at my next braking zone, and I sort of just go straight on said line. Or in a flat out exit, I'll basically "extend" the corner just so when I straighten the steering I'm already pointed out.

I've also recently heard it's better to actually stay straight until you hit terminal velocity, then make the move across. Sounds somewhat counterintuitive to me as that means you'll start the diagonal when the downforce on the front is at its peak, and thus any movement of the wheel will have a greater amount of longitudinal deceleration by virtue of more friction. You'd need a sharper, more perpendicular diagonal too, but I've heard that it's outweighed by the fact that you'll have less tyre scrub drag along the way and the earlier acceleration will benefit you all the way through the track.

I've also heard a weird one before. Exit as normal, then once the car is at full throttle (if it isn't already brought the exit), hold a tiny steering amount that takes you to the next braking zone. Basically not straight lining at any point in the entire process.
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NathanOlder
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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Id say, when im racing, I'd exit the corner and point the car towards the braking zone for the following corner. Probably so the car is straight just before the braking zone so the cars settled for braking.

Thats muy opinion anyway :)

I'd say this is how most racing drivers go about their business , unless like you say, if there are bumps to avoid or on a Qualy run (straight line , direct route to finish line)
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Tim.Wright
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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Didn't you get the answer you want here?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10704&hilit=ascari+ ... it&start=0
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N12ck
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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When I have been racing, I gradually edge over from one side of the track to the other, coming straight out of the 1st corner, I turn the kart to aim for the braking point of the next corner, you want to gradually edge over rather than get up to terminal speed then make a sharp turn because this will harm your speed massively, my experience of this is shown in my signature
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raymondu999
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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Tim - I thought that thread got nothing really conclusive out, and decided a fresh start would be better.

Nick - do you differentiate between flat out and non flat corners?

Peter Windsor (whose writing I consider to be, and is, rubbish) is the one who keeps saying to only move at the last moment. Which I have always said is absolute tosh. However if you watched his flying lap webcasts (he has great guests) he is talking with Rob Wilson, who coaches quite a gfew f1 drivers, and Rob also says that it's better to stay to the side until the last comfortable moment. I've never seen any such thing on any of the onboards I have ever seen in F1 though.
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N12ck
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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raymondu999 wrote:Tim - I thought that thread got nothing really conclusive out, and decided a fresh start would be better.

Nick - do you differentiate between flat out and non flat corners?

Peter Windsor (whose writing I consider to be, and is, rubbish) is the one who keeps saying to only move at the last moment. Which I have always said is absolute tosh. However if you watched his flying lap webcasts (he has great guests) he is talking with Rob Wilson, who coaches quite a gfew f1 drivers, and Rob also says that it's better to stay to the side until the last comfortable moment. I've never seen any such thing on any of the onboards I have ever seen in F1 though.
well for a flat out corner, I will still aim for the perfect turn in point at the previous corner going onto the straight, for me I always make sure my car/kart points in a straight line at the braking/ turning in place for the corner, so as i come out of the hairpin i will do all the turning (gradually) to get me aimed at the next braking zone / turning in zone so I can maximise the speed down the straight and get the turn in perfect, if you make a rash movement on the steering wheel half way down the straight to get on line with the braking zone will harm your speed, you want to be aiming at it coming out of the previous corner.

so essentially its like drawing a diagonal across the straight from the exit of one into the entry of another.
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timbo
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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raymondu999 wrote:Peter Windsor (whose writing I consider to be, and is, rubbish) is the one who keeps saying to only move at the last moment. Which I have always said is absolute tosh. However if you watched his flying lap webcasts (he has great guests) he is talking with Rob Wilson, who coaches quite a gfew f1 drivers, and Rob also says that it's better to stay to the side until the last comfortable moment. I've never seen any such thing on any of the onboards I have ever seen in F1 though.
Well, if you think that diagonal line adds some delta to your distance, and that delta is a cosine law, it might be reasonable to travel that delta (even if it's slightly higher) at higher speed. But I think any of that stuff goes out the window when one considers bumps, crosswinds, track undulation, visibility concerns and so on.

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Pandamasque
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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If you can go flat-out and without scrubbing off speed on any given section regardless of the line, you chose the shortest path. The shortest path between two points (corner A exit and corner B braking zone) is a straight line.
That being said things like surface imperfections and track conditions should be taken into account. For example at Le Mans drivers chose to 'switch lanes' at the Hunaudières straight as early as possible without compromising the exit, that's because the straight is a public highway and crossing the 'crown' of the road at higher speed would increase chances of bottoming out due to DF acting on the suspension.

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Nando
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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what you are talking about is normal racing line.

Take hairpin at Monaco. Out of it you have to get over to the other side to take the right hander.

Same thing except a much shorter distance.
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marcush.
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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Any steering input will induce a force thatz is slowing you down.
I think this is what is the background of the logic .You shoot the car from the corner with minimum steering input (-you must release the car).Idealy you just open the steerring as early as possible and the car is already aimed in the right direction and you just floor the throttle.
to not induce any drag you don´t give any steering input to gain as much speed as possible and change direction for your perfect corner entry at the latest point without compromising the braking itself.
cornering too long before the next straight will reduce exit speed and delay throttle so your speed on the straight is lower at any point of that straight.

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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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I dont think I could explain properly in words, so I'll just leave this clip of me playing Project C.A.R.S that pretty much sums up how I do it. Nowhere near my best as its from a few weeks ago.

Moderately late apex, full throttle through exit, release steering lock once car is pointed at the next braking point.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSEF5pgEcvM[/youtube]

It's a "Formula B" car which is basically a sort of GP2 like car. It's a pre-Alpha builds of the game too so it's nowhere near even finished yet but it's already the most fun racing game I have.

Anyone who likes racing games, especially F1 2011 should definately give it a shot.

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Paul
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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I think the key here is that even if you invent best new way to change direction since sliced bread, further down the weekend you still will be forced to follow others because of a cleaner line. Even more so on a dusty track or if there are lots of marbles off line.

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N12ck
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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when I come out of the first corner, I do all the turning to aim the kart at the next braking zone and straight line it, it works, as it got me a lap record,
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krisfx
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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Yeah similar to N12ck, but at BUKC we get test sessions and you just take a few cracks at the best line. Alternatively follow the formula renault lads ^_^

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N12ck
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Re: Diagonal racing lines

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krisfx wrote:Yeah similar to N12ck, but at BUKC we get test sessions and you just take a few cracks at the best line. Alternatively follow the formula renault lads ^_^
My line is mostly slightly different to what everyone accepts as 'the line' but mine is almost always quicker,
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