Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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bhall
bhall
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 21:26

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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I figured that was the subtext. I just wondered what was given as the official rationale behind the move.

Pingguest
Pingguest
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Joined: 28 Dec 2008, 16:31

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Nando wrote:Hembery: Pirelli open to change tyre philosophy if Formula 1 teams want it
We were asked to come up with a certain approach, and that was agreed with teams," Hembery said. "The leader for the teams' views was actually Ross [Brawn], and he told us that Canada 2010 was the model they wanted and that is what we worked on.

"What do we want? One car to disappear into the distance? The public turned away from the sport when that happened, so there was a very clear decision made by the sport to address the racing.
I rest my case.
Hembery's statement does raise the question what would happen if one team would dominate on the current tyres.
The main problem with the tyres is that they are standardized and used to artificially 'spice up' the racing. Pirelli did a great job in improving the show, but they cannot conceal it is nothing but fake.

MSC07-JCGX
MSC07-JCGX
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 01:24

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Pingguest wrote:
Nando wrote:Hembery: Pirelli open to change tyre philosophy if Formula 1 teams want it
We were asked to come up with a certain approach, and that was agreed with teams," Hembery said. "The leader for the teams' views was actually Ross [Brawn], and he told us that Canada 2010 was the model they wanted and that is what we worked on.

"What do we want? One car to disappear into the distance? The public turned away from the sport when that happened, so there was a very clear decision made by the sport to address the racing.
I rest my case.
i agree seeing one car disappear into the distance is boring, that's why they wanted a situation like canada mixed positions close fighting but they aren't replicating that yes the rear tyre's are stronger and the performance gap between the compounds are smaller, but the window and durability is smaller this year and the cars are closer once you pit you fall even further back and have to fight more cars, which is the same for all the drivers when they pit but because you've got to manage the tyres more you can't really push. And michael schumacher did start this off but even martin brundle said the tyres this year a affecting the race a bit too much.

MSC07-JCGX
MSC07-JCGX
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 01:24

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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i'm being fair in my opinion and realistic, pirelli have done a good job spicing up the racing but i think they've gone a bit too far this year with the tyres that drop off quicker and work in a limited window. Maybe the situation was worse because they hadn't raced at bahrain the year before but wait til another team suffers badly. i think it's right to make the rear tyres more durable with drivers wanted for this year but beacuse last year tyre performance between the compounds were quite big the stratergies were more settled but this year the cars and tyres are more closer which means if the tyres are more like last year you could play around and say few more laps on this tyre because of the guy who you are fighting or maybe pit early for clean air etc and like they are doing in the next race having a gap tyre, soft and hard which is interesting. but back to michaels comment if your not in that small window you won't perform and will hurt the tyres faster then need to either drive slower or pit, in bahrain merc and mclaren were nearly a second off (maybe a lot less but) red bull and lotus race pace and that was due to them not making the tyres work, so maybe if you get it wrong thats your race decided. I'm sure after a few more races if it settles down and the teams get on top of it then the rest will be history, if the teams are still struggling then i think we'll hear more, and pirelli might have to accept they've done wrong and change, it's their 2nd year so they still learning, but on a personal note i think if the drivers can push to catch or fight with the drivers infront of them longer it will be more exciting, cause now push a bit in clean or worse dirty air then like kimi he couldn't pass vettel and if he had a bit more from the tyres he could've have won and lotus is good on its tyres. lets see how the races go.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Having the 2011 Bahrain GP cancelled shouldn't be an issue IMO. Pirelli have done quite a bit of testing in Sakhir.
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Mashed
Mashed
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Joined: 27 Mar 2012, 20:23

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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MSC07-JCGX wrote:
i'm being fair in my opinion and realistic, pirelli have done a good job spicing up the racing but i think they've gone a bit too far this year with the tyres that drop off quicker and work in a limited window. Maybe the situation was worse because they hadn't raced at bahrain the year before but wait til another team suffers badly. i think it's right to make the rear tyres more durable with drivers wanted for this year but beacuse last year tyre performance between the compounds were quite big the stratergies were more settled but this year the cars and tyres are more closer which means if the tyres are more like last year you could play around and say few more laps on this tyre because of the guy who you are fighting or maybe pit early for clean air etc and like they are doing in the next race having a gap tyre, soft and hard which is interesting. but back to michaels comment if your not in that small window you won't perform and will hurt the tyres faster then need to either drive slower or pit, in bahrain merc and mclaren were nearly a second off (maybe a lot less but) red bull and lotus race pace and that was due to them not making the tyres work, so maybe if you get it wrong thats your race decided. I'm sure after a few more races if it settles down and the teams get on top of it then the rest will be history, if the teams are still struggling then i think we'll hear more, and pirelli might have to accept they've done wrong and change, it's their 2nd year so they still learning, but on a personal note i think if the drivers can push to catch or fight with the drivers infront of them longer it will be more exciting, cause now push a bit in clean or worse dirty air then like kimi he couldn't pass vettel and if he had a bit more from the tyres he could've have won and lotus is good on its tyres. lets see how the races go.
Thanks for the quote but who is being quoted?

MSC07-JCGX
MSC07-JCGX
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 01:24

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Thanks for the quote but who is being quoted?[/quote]


you mean who wrote this i did haha

bgroovers
bgroovers
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Joined: 16 Oct 2008, 17:15

2012 Pirelli Tyres

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Following on from Michael Schumacher renewed attack on Pirelli's current specification of tyres what are your thoughts on 2012 blacks stuff?
I am personally loving the racing this year and have truly enjoyed the first four races of the season. However, I am a little concerned that Schumis comments are in fact correct in some respects.
I buy into the "canada 2010" style of racing where the tyres wear out that Pirelli having been charged with producing however i dont buy into the fact that this years tyres have such a narrow operating window. Do the two go hand in hand? Surely not.
Cant we have rubber that last 12 laps for the softer compound and 25 for the harder compound with them being so peaky.
It does frustrate me that it appears that a driver like Lewis Hamilton is not able to "push" like we have seen before. However this may just be the new "steady" Lewis and not the tyres.
On the other hand, the rules/tyres are the same for all. It is a level playing field and a driver/team must make the most the that seasons rules.
Can Pirelli not make a tire that wears out after a certain distance without suffering from thermal degradation if the tyre is pushed too hard though?

GrizzleBoy
GrizzleBoy
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Joined: 05 Mar 2012, 04:06

Re: 2012 Pirelli Tyres

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All that needs to be said, is that:

-when the racing is happening in the pit lane and not on the track because

-following a car in front can either burn through or change the temperature of your tyres enough for them to be rendered useless due to tiny operating windows

-the majority of overtaking is just people overtaking people that are on different strategies/dead tyres who they aren't even racing anyway.

-they create a sea of marbles off line which is where people could possibly go to overtake

As it stands, the Pirellis do absolutely nothing but completely discourage racing on the track.

They discourage following cars, yet they make going off line a risk.

They remove the racing from the track and pit it into the pens and pads of the pit strategists.

Trocola
Trocola
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012, 19:22
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2012 Pirelli Tyres

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I am with GrizzleBoy on this topic. Pirelli tyres are rubbish. What Schumacher said is true: drivers are no longer looking for the maximum speed on every moment of the race, they just go slow in turns and careful with the throtle pedal. That's not racing. That's just a procession. And the only overtaking we see on races are because one driver has a very new tyre or the other one has old tyres.
On the other hand, this tyres go against agressive driving, because if you over-use them one moment, they fade away in 2 laps.

I would like to see the F1 like DTM: 2 mandatory pit stops between lap 5 and lap 60. The tyres are good and durable, but new tyres are a bit faster than used ones, so every driver can choose his strategy: pit first, pit the last... you can choose because your tyres are not going to became crap in 5 laps.

My choose would be that: better and faster tyres and 2 mandatory pit stops.


Trocola

P.D: sorry for my english

Nando
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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i'd like to see the same tires we have today but with longer life.
Instead of having peak grip for just one lap, design them so you can get 2-3 laps out of them on full pace.

Or fix the problem that is the reason Pirelli designed tires like this or why we have DRS.
Decrease aero, increase mechanical grip.

Design a standard floor that uses ground effects (yes yes i know but you know what i mean)
This floor all teams will use so no development can be done or modification.

And monza style wings on the cars.

Remove the aero and you get the racing back.
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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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they create a sea of marbles off line which is where people could possibly go to overtake

As it stands, the Pirellis do absolutely nothing but completely discourage racing on the track.
I found the problem...When they talked to the Pirelli guy on Windsors Flying Lap in GPWEEK mag..
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12534
He basically said that the marbles are dead rubber that gets thrown right back off.
They, Pirelli just don't get it..IF they fly right back off the racers wouldn't collect them after the race and furthermore they don't understand that when there is a sea of marbles as fast as you may throw them off there are always more. They are cohesive and do stick and they do cause a problem.
It makes me think JT is closer to the truth that I thought..Pirelli Just Don't Get It
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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Hembery had a different line last year - he said it was better to have marbling than to have the rubber getting laid down on the racing line and improving tyre life.
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prince
prince
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Joined: 01 Mar 2012, 11:22

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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Here is my theory on 2012 tyres. This is like stopping Usain Bolt from running away in a sprint.

International Olympic Committee decides to give everyone boots of same size (deliberately all small size), those whose can shrink their feet and adjust can be more competitive. Bolt cannot complain about the boots now! By lowering Bolt's abilities, the olympic association is ensuring that there is good competition. Now all tom, dick and harry who have smaller feet can now match him in speed. Great show for spectators now!!! Essentially, Running 100 mts in 9.52 second is too dangerous, so safety first. Year on year, the IOC bring changes, which will make the field more competitive and we can see 100 mts being covered in 13-14 seconds!!! Now it is really a great show, all sprinters are running so close to each other, just a hairline difference between them. Don't we love this kind of competition? No, you are insane to say this is wrong.

This is called spicing up the show and this is why it is great for sports. Way go Pirelli and FIA.

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

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prince wrote:Don't we love this kind of competition? No, you are insane to say this is wrong.
Speak for yourself. I for one don't. Don't presume to speak for every fan around.
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