Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[prince]

Don't we love this kind of competition? No, you are insane to say this is wrong.

Speak for yourself. I for one don't. Don't presume to speak for every fan around.

My question and answer are with humour. So, no offence intended.

[ubrben]

I am with GrizzleBoy on this topic. Pirelli tyres are rubbish. What Schumacher said is true: drivers are no longer looking for the maximum speed on every moment of the race, they just go slow in turns and careful with the throtle pedal. That's not racing. That's just a procession. And the only overtaking we see on races are because one driver has a very new tyre or the other one has old tyres.
On the other hand, this tyres go against agressive driving, because if you over-use them one moment, they fade away in 2 laps.

I would like to see the F1 like DTM: 2 mandatory pit stops between lap 5 and lap 60. The tyres are good and durable, but new tyres are a bit faster than used ones, so every driver can choose his strategy: pit first, pit the last... you can choose because your tyres are not going to became crap in 5 laps.

My choose would be that: better and faster tyres and 2 mandatory pit stops.


Trocola

P.D: sorry for my english

Did you watch DTM at Lausitz last weekend?? The race was dull as hell and it was clear Jamie Green was faster than Farfus and Paffett faster than Spengler, but they couldn't make a move. We nearly had Paffett overtake Spengler in the pits, but basically he qualified on pole, held the lead off the start and defended. It was like F1 5 years ago.

I don't think F1 is particularly "genuine" competition right now, but on the other hand it's entertaining to watch, which it wasn't 5 years ago and DTM isn't now.

On the other hand you could argue that the teams are choosing not to focus on controlling tyre degradation because the didn't have to for the past few years. I'm sure if you put them on any F1 tyre from the early 80s they'd be screaming.

There's lots of things you can do to make the tyre work less hard and maybe some engineers need to brainstorm that rather than find the last 1/10% of aero.

There's a question - anyone looked at lap time vs. degradation for GP2 running the same tyres?

Ben

[raymondu999]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

[stefan_]

I am with GrizzleBoy on this topic. Pirelli tyres are rubbish. What Schumacher said is true: drivers are no longer looking for the maximum speed on every moment of the race, they just go slow in turns and careful with the throtle pedal. That's not racing. That's just a procession. And the only overtaking we see on races are because one driver has a very new tyre or the other one has old tyres.
On the other hand, this tyres go against agressive driving, because if you over-use them one moment, they fade away in 2 laps.

I would like to see the F1 like DTM: 2 mandatory pit stops between lap 5 and lap 60. The tyres are good and durable, but new tyres are a bit faster than used ones, so every driver can choose his strategy: pit first, pit the last... you can choose because your tyres are not going to became crap in 5 laps.

My choose would be that: better and faster tyres and 2 mandatory pit stops.


Trocola

P.D: sorry for my english

I agree with what Trocola said. They tires have become a bigger issue than it has to be, and choosing tire strategy has become a bigger factor in deciding the final result than who is in fact the fastest and the most consistant on track during the whole race. The way I see it is that the tyres are drastically limiting the driver's capability to drive at its best.

[Nando]

Did you watch DTM at Lausitz last weekend?? The race was dull as hell and it was clear Jamie Green was faster than Farfus and Paffett faster than Spengler,

I disagree, the BMW´s were the fastest cars all weekend.
The Merc got owned in the high speed stuff and only closed in because of drafting.


The gap fluctuated between 4 tenths and 8 tenths. They were never in a position to actually even try to make an overtake during braking or similar.

There was plenty of overtakes happening in the race between cars, cars that were as equal as the front runners but relative to where you are in the field.

The BMW´s could also have taken pole in Hockenheim and they recorded the fastest laptime in Hockenheim as well in either Practice 2 or the warm-up.

[Nando]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

Agree, defending and overtaking is an art that requires lots of racing craft.

However the problem starts to arise when someone can´t even defend due to the tires are completely gone.
And that´s by running at 90% for all of the laps.

[MemroableC]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

Yes but tyre management and preservation is also a key talent a skilled driver should have.

[raymondu999]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

Agree, defending and overtaking is an art that requires lots of racing craft.

However the problem starts to arise when someone can´t even defend due to the tires are completely gone.
And that´s by running at 90% for all of the laps.

It can be done though - like in the examples I stated.

Yes but tyre management and preservation is also a key talent a skilled driver should have.

Should is all about opinion. Please don't speak for me. For me it's somewhere in the bottom of "skills an F1 driver should have" list. Maybe it features higher on yours, but not on mine.

[bhall]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

Yes but tyre management and preservation is also a key talent a skilled driver should have.

I, too, have a respect for drivers who can seemingly make their cars as wide as the track when under pressure. I have even more respect for those who can pull that off without endangering himself or anyone else - that particular art appears to be fading.

I also agree that tire management is important. Even if the tires are bulletproof, it will always be beneficial to make them last as long as possible, provided the driver can also maintain a competitive pace. It's with regard to the latter that the Pirellis badly miss the mark.

I know that Pirelli has been asked to provide exactly the type of tires they provide to F1; I can intellectualize that. However, my inherent revulsion to the racing those tires create mean that I'd probably have a very hard time convincing myself to buy a set of Pirellis.

I wonder if that's just me, and if not, what kind of effect that could have on the company's bottom line.

[prince]

I know I'm probably in the minority - but I feel, and always have felt, that defense is a key talent, and I love seeing someone pull off a magnificently defensive race, keeping the car ahead of a faster car.

Yes but tyre management and preservation is also a key talent a skilled driver should have.

I, too, have a respect for drivers who can seemingly make their cars as wide as the track when under pressure. I have even more respect for those who can pull that off without endangering himself or anyone else - that particular art appears to be fading.

I also agree that tire management is important. Even if the tires are bulletproof, it will always be beneficial to make them last as long as possible, provided the driver can also maintain a competitive pace. It's with regard to the latter that the Pirellis badly miss the mark.

I know that Pirelli has been asked to provide exactly the type of tires they provide to F1; I can intellectualize that. However, my inherent revulsion to the racing those tires create mean that I'd probably have a very hard time convincing myself to buy a set of Pirellis.

I wonder if that's just me, and if not, what kind of effect that could have on the company's bottom line.

If tomorrow FIA comes out with being economical with fuel and annoucing that instead of 160kg of fuel load (ideal fuel load in current races), a car can only carry 140Kg, to SAVE FUEL. Would people then regard DRIVING WITH FUEL MANAGEMENT is "should have" quality for a driver?

Hamilton had said after Dan Wheldon's accident, "I would rather die on a race track while racing, than elsewhere". This is what we expect (I am not speaking for raymond here ), hard core racing on the limit (of course not death of human beings). What's the fun of watching compromised racing where man and machine cannot reach their optimum because tyre doesn't allow it?

[bhall]

Would people then regard DRIVING WITH FUEL MANAGEMENT is "should have" quality for a driver?

Yes. The foremost quality for any racing driver to possess is the ability to be effective within the regulations.

[strad]

But would it be something you'd get up at 3am to watch?

[basrawi]

Would people then regard DRIVING WITH FUEL MANAGEMENT is "should have" quality for a driver?

Yes. The foremost quality for any racing driver to possess is the ability to be effective within the regulations.

I accept your example only if we are agreeing that this is not f1 anymore. Its like allowing football players to use their hands (I mean soccer) then saying the best player should have the skill to adapt.

what we have today is not F1, what we have is something like Fe (Formula endurance ) lol

[bhall]

@strad

I don't even wake up at 3 AM for races now. That ship sailed a long, long time ago.

@basrawi

I didn't say that I don't agree with your point. In fact, if you look through my posts on the subject, you'll see that very people few have been anywhere near as critical as I have with regard to these Pirelli-putty tires. I absolutely cannot stand them, and I'm losing interest in F1 because of it.

I didn't sign up for Formula Pirelli.

[hardingfv32]

I don't think losing a few racing purest is going to hurt the F1 business model.

Brian