Thoughts on 2012 tyres?

[zyphro]

But if there is a hard tyre that allows you to push and will do the whole race then everyone will do the exact same strategy - they'll all use that one tyre.

No they won't; if there's variation. That is why I mentioned choice. My explanation was vague, of course it was, I was thinking on the spot.

I agree that it would be better to have a tyre that can be leant on without falling apart, but Hamilton showed how it could be done with the current hard tyre in the last race. He was able to overtake many cars and get the tyres to last. In the final stint he was driving to a target time and managed almost half the race distance on a single set of tyres.

"driving to a target time"

That's my problem. This isn't real racing in my view. There needs to be a mix, not everyone racing to a delta.

It is possible but the teams have to get the setup right. By the end of this year the teams will be on top of the setup and will all be doing similar strategies at every race again.

Really? Try reading Horner's recent comments.

"Artificial racing would be to give the slow guys an advantage over the fast guys and that's not what is happening here."

No, the results are solely based on who gets the tyre working. If you can't see that it's time to take your rose tinted glasses off. I bet you we will have another different winner in Monaco.

So what if there is another winner in Monaco? In qualifying a difference of just 0.1% in performance is usually enough to be the difference between a top 5 place and not getting into the top 10. The field is so incredibly close this year because of rule stability and the FIA cracking down on some of the creative ways teams were bending the rules. When things are that close the it's obvious that the pecking order will change on a race by race basis.

"The field is so incredibly close this year because of rule stability and the FIA cracking down on some of the creative ways teams were bending the rules."

Whilst that is true, how can you deny tyres are not the most important factor? Tyres are the reason we are getting freak results. Williams almost lapped the previous race winner Vettel, O'rly?

The races are being won by the driver in a good car who drives a great race AND who gets the tyres working.

Nope, it's being won by those that get the correct setup done over the weekend. If you get it wrong, well race over. The narrow margin for performance of these tyres makes it all the more harder for teams to figure out how the pesky tyres work.

[zyphro]

Zyphro, let me put this another way for you. Which car / driver combination do you feel has been so head and shoulders above the competition this year that they would deservedly be running away with the championship if it weren't for these blasted tyres?

And how do you expect one to make a judgement on that? As I have already said, these tyres are masking who is where. Whoever gets the tyres working will win. The lotus seems to have a wider performance window, which is why it performs consistently no matter the venue.

[xpensive]

The way fortune has swung this season, with five different winners in as many races, nothing would surprise me?

[myurr]

Zyphro, let me put this another way for you. Which car / driver combination do you feel has been so head and shoulders above the competition this year that they would deservedly be running away with the championship if it weren't for these blasted tyres?

And how do you expect one to make a judgement on that? As I have already said, these tyres are masking who is where. Whoever gets the tyres working will win. The lotus seems to have a wider performance window, which is why it performs consistently no matter the venue.

So you don't know if the results would have been any different? How do we know that the tyres are the problem and that the field isnt just incredibly close?

[zyphro]

Zyphro, let me put this another way for you. Which car / driver combination do you feel has been so head and shoulders above the competition this year that they would deservedly be running away with the championship if it weren't for these blasted tyres?

And how do you expect one to make a judgement on that? As I have already said, these tyres are masking who is where. Whoever gets the tyres working will win. The lotus seems to have a wider performance window, which is why it performs consistently no matter the venue.

So you don't know if the results would have been any different? How do we know that the tyres are the problem and that the field isnt just incredibly close?

There's no doubt the field has got closer with the loss of the EBD for the front running teams. But as all involved in F1 have echoed, nobody understands how these tyres are working.

They are clearly fundamental in the car's performance as a whole.

[myurr]

There's no doubt the field has got closer with the loss of the EBD for the front running teams. But as all involved in F1 have echoed, nobody understands how these tyres are working.

They are clearly fundamental in the car's performance as a whole.

I don't doubt that but at the same time I don't see why that is bad for racing, nor do I believe that the championship battle is suffering because of it.

[Tim.Wright]

As boring as you may have found it, at least it was true and proper racing. What do we have currently?

Artificial racing.

Everyone like to sugar coat the past.

In reality the boring racing, for example during the Schumacher era, was also far from "pure". They tried everything to improve the show and failed. This resulted in the most boring 10 years or so in the history of F1. In this period, overtakes on the track never happened. All the overtaking was done in the pits.

Between then and now, they tried refuelling, no refuelling, single tyre supplier, multiple tyre suppliers and back to a single tyre supplier, rules forcing one set of tyres per race, traction control, no traction control, higher front wings, lower front wings, adjustable front wings, adjustable rear wings, god knows how many different qualifying formats, 107% rules, no 107% rules then back again with the 107% rules. 3 different points scoring systems, team orders banned, team orders allowed, Kers, no Kers and then Kers.


Is the current situation perfect? Maybe not, but for sure going back to regulations of 5-6 years ago is not the answer.

[ubrben]

Moreover, I do not subscribe to the notion that "dirty air" adversely effects racing. I've seen far too many epic battles in conditions that "dirty air" should have negated but didn't.

Ben

Can you provide a link to one of these battles? I'd love some examples, rather than just rhetoric.

Ben

[crypted]

And how do you expect one to make a judgement on that? As I have already said, these tyres are masking who is where. Whoever gets the tyres working will win. The lotus seems to have a wider performance window, which is why it performs consistently no matter the venue.

So you don't know if the results would have been any different? How do we know that the tyres are the problem and that the field isnt just incredibly close?

There's no doubt the field has got closer with the loss of the EBD for the front running teams. But as all involved in F1 have echoed, nobody understands how these tyres are working.

They are clearly fundamental in the car's performance as a whole.[/quote]
Well, as you said, the teams haven't completely understood how the tyres work. Putting that into account, the teams have to simply work harder to understand the charecteristics of the tyres (Button and Kimi mentioned this too) ; because we have such close gaps between the teams, minimal setup changes can have a huge influence on the perfomance.

I think that after a few races the teams will understand the tyres better and this could stabilisize the field a bit; but as the field is already that close and the aerodynamical differences are that little, the season is quite unpredictable; and honestly said, I do like it.

[zyphro]

And how do you expect one to make a judgement on that? As I have already said, these tyres are masking who is where. Whoever gets the tyres working will win. The lotus seems to have a wider performance window, which is why it performs consistently no matter the venue.

So you don't know if the results would have been any different? How do we know that the tyres are the problem and that the field isnt just incredibly close?

There's no doubt the field has got closer with the loss of the EBD for the front running teams. But as all involved in F1 have echoed, nobody understands how these tyres are working.

They are clearly fundamental in the car's performance as a whole.

Well, as you said, the teams haven't completely understood how the tyres work. Putting that into account, the teams have to simply work harder to understand the charecteristics of the tyres (Button and Kimi mentioned this too) ; because we have such close gaps between the teams, minimal setup changes can have a huge influence on the perfomance.

I think that after a few races the teams will understand the tyres better and this could stabilisize the field a bit; but as the field is already that close and the aerodynamical differences are that little, the season is quite unpredictable; and honestly said, I do like it.[/quote]

The teams do have to work hard. But 5 races in + a test, they still have no idea what's going on.

Isn't very promising is it?

[myurr]

The teams do have to work hard. But 5 races in + a test, they still have no idea what's going on.

Isn't very promising is it?

Renault seem pretty consistent. Ferrari have been in the races. McLaren have been over a single lap and usually have reasonable pace in the race at the very least.

Some teams seem to be getting there, and I'd imagine all of them will by the end of the season. Cheer up!

[bhall]

Moreover, I do not subscribe to the notion that "dirty air" adversely effects racing. I've seen far too many epic battles in conditions that "dirty air" should have negated but didn't.

Ben

Can you provide a link to one of these battles? I'd love some examples, rather than just rhetoric.

Ben

I'm not so good with finding the primo videos. However, Alonso's duel with Schumacher at Imola in 2005 comes to mind.

You have to remember that overtaking is all about performance differentiation; aerodynamic and mechanical grip are merely facets of the game. Two hypothetical cars with absolutely no aerodynamic grip whatsoever will tend to form a procession if their performance is equal, which is basically the case with cars produced under contemporary regulations.

The Pirellis induce performance differentiation due to the miniscule odds that two cars will have their tires working within the extremely narrow window of optimum performance at exactly the same time. That's why overtaking has exploded in the last two years. If it was down to aerodynamics, the game would have changed in 2009.

Ben

EDIT: Moderation happened.

[zyphro]

The teams do have to work hard. But 5 races in + a test, they still have no idea what's going on.

Isn't very promising is it?

Renault seem pretty consistent. Ferrari have been in the races. McLaren have been over a single lap and usually have reasonable pace in the race at the very least.

Some teams seem to be getting there, and I'd imagine all of them will by the end of the season. Cheer up!

Renault seem consistent as they built that car that could cope with a large window for performance of their tyres.

"I'd imagine all of them will by the end of the season"

End of the season? =D> =D>

Brilliant.

[Paul]

The thing is, teams have become these behemoths whose sole purpose of functioning is spitting out points of downforce to find some lap time week-in week-out while not leaving premises of the factory. You could see that in the argument some teams made about recent test, they basically said they couldn't gain advantage from it because their operations are now so focused on simulation that they cannot switch to track testing efficiently. Now they have a tyre they haven't been able to model properly, which in turn means they arrive at a track with no setup that is 99% perfect like they used to. And now they have to learn again to prepare the car on each track for unknown variables and so far apparently they haven't.

[myurr]

Renault seem consistent as they built that car that could cope with a large window for performance of their tyres.

"I'd imagine all of them will by the end of the season"

End of the season? =D> =D>

Brilliant.

Why is that a bad thing? Why should it all be easy and why shouldn't the drivers and teams have a difficult challenge laid out before them? Will the winner at the end of the year not be the driver and team that did the best job over the year?

You're also making assumptions about Renault with no proof.